5: The Citrix Session – A Walkthrough of the Citrix Virtual Applications and Desktop Solutions

Nov 26, 2019

This episode is a walk down history lane discussing the history of Citrix and the experiences of Andy and Bill!

Host: Andy Whiteside
Co-Host: Bill Sutton

Speaker 1:
0:01

Hello everyone and welcome to episode five of the Citrix session. I'm your host Andy Whiteside. I have with me bill Sutton. Bill, how's it going? Going well, how are you? Uh, I'm good. I'm, I'm excited again to do this. I, you know, you and I had plans to, uh, to interview someone about a blog that they had written a couple of months ago around access control and, and that one's not going to happen today, but we figured we would take a take this time and do the, uh, the podcast that we had talked about doing a, I had to thinking about a lot doing, which is to kind of go through the history of the Citrix product and, and what the products are used to be called and what they're now called. Uh, and um, some of the way those things have evolved into services. So if you're, if you're good with that, let's, let's jump into it. Looking forward to it. Nice. I'm catching build a little off guard here cause that wasn't what we planned to talk about. However, I know he's got the history in the background to, uh, to get us through this and help me tell the story. And I think some of you guys are going to be surprised at what, uh, what Citrix has to offer, uh, as part of the product set these days. All right, well let's, uh, let's talk about the very beginning bill and how this, uh, what is ed Yaka Bucci came up with this idea of, um, uh, session based computing, uh, back when he was working at IBM done at coral Gables. Right? That's all right.

Speaker 2:
1:16

Yep. He came up with that and, um, formed his own outfit. You know what, originally they wanted the name at citrus systems, but I don't think the, uh, the citrus industry was thrilled. So they changed the S to an X and off they went.

Speaker 1:
1:31

Yeah, that's right. And a lot of people don't realize it was called citrus in the beginning. Um, so I, I love telling this part of Citrix and, and that is, um, you know, a lot of people don't realize that what, what ed basically did was he took what would go across from the network card across the cable to a monitor and he put that on the network and delivered it to a software client, uh, that could then take that and, and rerender it onto the screen through that, uh, did that CPU and that, that GPU and then that cable and then the, you know, onto the monitor screen. That was, that was pretty revolutionary at the time.

Speaker 2:
2:05

It was absolutely revolutionary in the initial codes were based on Microsoft, um, or some, sorry, Abby MOS too. Uh, and then eventually of course migrated when it became clear that Dawson windows were going to be the standard. He reported it over to that, but the, the ICA protocol that which makes it all Pat makes the magic all possible was developed by Citrix from the beginning. And it's something they still, uh, completely own.

Speaker 1:
2:31

And you just, you just used an acronym. I like to try that. ICA stands for independent computing architecture and that a ICA protocol is, is what came out of that. And then I guess I'll fast forward real quick to the very end or not the end, but at least where we're at today. And that is HDX is kind of the new name for the HDX protocol is kind of the new name for ICA is of you were talking to people and they're saying HDX and you're wondering why they're not saying ICA. That's, that's why that's right.

Speaker 2:
3:00

So bill that a, that first product that you can remember that came out of that, that development, what was that called? Well, there were a couple of them really, really early day ones. Multi-view and wind view or wind. Do you multi-view I may have that backwards. I, I don't, I wasn't around the industry then. Um, but, uh, those were the initial products and then they eventually became wind frame, which was kind of the one that took off. Um, and really, you know, took Citrix into the public markets and grew the company. And then of course there are been various names over the years, metal frame. I'm at a Frank presentation server and so on.

Speaker 1:
3:37

And so all those products were really intended to take the application workload that there was showing up on a screen and take it and send it across the network and let it get rendered on somebody else's screen remotely while centrally making that happen. Right?

Speaker 2:
3:50

Absolutely. Yeah. The data and the applications were, we're in the Dana center, um, and the, the user was, could be in theory anywhere. Uh, and essentially all it was going across that wire was, was screenshots, mouse movements and keystrokes. Of course, that's changed a lot, um, since that, since those days. But, uh, you know, you back in, back then you were talking about mostly at least lines, ISD and modems. So the network throughput was pretty slow compared to today, but the, um, the ICA protocol being what it was, helped optimize that and made it, uh, a real workable solution for lots of customers and lots of companies.

Speaker 1:
4:29

So I think I was, uh, sitting beside a guy who helped me roll out a Metta frame one dot eight. And he said, Hey, do you want to make a desktop available? And I didn't really understand why you would do that cause I thought it was, you know, applications where all that really mattered. And he started explaining it to me that in some cases users need the full desktop experience and some cases applications perform better with a full desktop experience. And that there was a use case for it. And he did something. I thought it was amazing at the time. He basically took windows Explorer and put a switch on the end of it and up popped the desktop. And from that day forward I've known what desktop virtualization presentation, desktop virtualization is. That's right. Yep. And of course we know what that morphed into. Well, yeah. And you know, one of the things I'd like to try to explain to people all the time, and there's a massive difference between machine virtualization, you know, like server virtualization and actual desktop virtualization. We're not only in many cases or your desktop are you virtualizing the desktop, the machine workload, but you're also delivering what would have been that network, uh, that, that GPU output, you're putting that on the network and all of a sudden you've got a virtualization from two factors, a machine that's virtualized and the delivery of the display and the interaction with the display that's virtualized.

Speaker 2:
5:39

Yeah. And that's one of those things that evolved with the technology obviously, and uh, can make a huge difference. Um, the, these in today's world, these, these really beefy visual applications like solid works and AutoCAD and Revvit and, and many others, um, they're, they're confined to very expensive and, and powerful workstations. But by virtualizing them and leveraging GPU technology in the data center, um, you can tell her those things over, over a less bandwidth intensive networks. Uh, it's still get a very similar experience.

Speaker 1:
6:15

Yeah. I think, uh, one of the most interesting and challenging things about that concept of virtualizing all those end user type things is the actual end user right there. Their workload, their workloads, their workflows, these crazy apps that they have that might be very low resolution, maybe high resolution, um, you know, that that really presents a challenge that something is there. I say simple as machine virtualization doesn't have to ever try to tackle. Uh, and then you throw in, you know, security and what we intended to do this podcast on the day and access control and you're taking something that you may or may not want someone to be able to get a hold of and you're making it available from any network in the world. Absolutely. And by centralizing the data center, you're, you're in

Speaker 2:
6:57

in theories securing it better because the four walls of the data center are a lot more secure than the, what's surround that desktop. But again, while we're sending it to that desktop is screenshots of mouse and keystrokes. Yeah, we can, we can make them a lot more secure than that, obviously through policy. But, uh, but you know, at the end of the day, we're delivering a workload centralized in the data center to an endpoint. And the endpoint doesn't really matter in the sense that it doesn't have to be windows. Uh, there's a numbers of different, about a number of different options for that. Um, and by limiting what you're delivering to that workstation and what that workstation has access to, you are in your broader measure of security to the data

Speaker 1:
7:35

that's in the data center, right? You're making it accessible. But at the same time, you can really control who has access and what they can access real time and, and use variables to determine that moment you know, where they're at and what they're doing and whether it's appropriate on that. That's only going to get even more advanced when we start talking a few minutes about doing it as a service. Yes. So, okay, so let's, uh, we've gone from, you know, wind frame to Metta frame. Um, now we're at the presentation server, which I happen to love the name cause I mean, to me that's the name that makes the most sense. If you think about the hardest part of this whole equation, uh, however, that wasn't the name that captured the, the mind share of the technology, uh, enterprise technology solutions, uh, that they needed virtualization concepts in the name. And so all of a sudden, what the acquisition of in source, uh, here comes the names in. So that that landed is at XenApp. Right? That's all right. And so Zainab became the application and even server, uh, desktop, um, technology. Uh, and then in parallel, the guys from VMware started, uh, started the beating the drum around this thing called virtual desktop infrastructure, which was a true client desktop that ran on top of a hypervisor, in their case, their hypervisor. Uh, and that led to the rise of, uh, of what products, uh, that took to the rise, um,

Speaker 2:
8:56

Citrix virtual apps and desktops on the Citrix side. But on the VMware side, obviously it was,

Speaker 1:
9:01

it's called view, wasn't it? It was, but I was actually, I was actually, I'm sorry, I misunderstood. I set you up and did, do a good job. That led to the rise of an of an individual product called Zen desktop. Oh yeah. That was just VDI, right. It wasn't this all inclusive suite. It was a, it was just the VDI portion of what Citrix wood was doing.

Speaker 2:
9:22

That's correct. Yes. And, um, it was based on this Annapolis, the underlying architecture that existed for, for many years of, of what was presentation server and then XenApp. Um, so it was based on the same, the same core management concepts, uh, that those of us that use or have used set up 65 and prior products. Um, it leveraged that same, uh, that same platform for delivering virtual desktops. The, uh, uh, hypervisor,

Speaker 1:
9:51

but you know, I don't, I don't know if that's the correct way to say it, right. Cause it had its own, that was the rise of the Ima architecture, which was, uh, you know, kind of running in parallel to the, uh, excuse me, uh, the, um, flex cat FMA. So FMA, right. That was the rise of FMA. Meanwhile, ICA was still going on and the presentation server world. Uh, and then, right. And then I guess three years into that, um, those two worlds collided. Everything became FMA. That's true.

Speaker 2:
10:19

You're right. When, when the XenDesktop name, I was thinking more of the, the kind of the, um, the stop gap that that occurred in the interim. Um, so when, when, when VMware coined the phrase VDI or virtual desktop infrastructure, um, Citrix answered that had already been developing something along those lines and folks had already kinda been using it. But that was the ability to leverage what was then the, the Zen app architecture, like you said, Andy FMA flex. Um, I'm not FMA, I am a independent management architecture, which, which was the old one. Um, the original presentation server framework, uh, was called something different and they leverage that to allow customers to deliver virtual desktops hosted in a VMware cluster. Uh, and then when they went to the, to a completely different architecture, cause that really wouldn't scale well I, when you're talking about thousands or tens of thousands of virtual desktops, they move to this flex cast architecture. Um, and that was the point at which they really named it XenDesktop.

Speaker 1:
11:18

You know, the other piece of that too, I would, I would point out, and I didn't really realize this and I heard somebody say it at the time and I didn't really, it didn't really stick with me, but moving to the FMA, flexible management architecture, a flex cast management, flex house architecture was the precursor for being able to bring Citrix is a traditional products, their own prem products into the cloud. Either the control plane or just the cloud, which is where we're going to go here in a few minutes. I did want to highlight this for a minute though, that that origins of these in desktop product, the VDI product, that was a very, very cost effective solution from Citrix. Uh, that was separate from the, the Ima solution. And what that got us into seeing is that there's a world of, it got me to understand there was a world of Citrix use cases that were as simple as just a virtual desktop that didn't need all the other capabilities that, uh, many times or a nice to have and, and really, uh, very valuable. But at the same time, a simple VDI use case, uh, it goes a long way. And as a quick example, I'll tell you as a, as a company, uh, you know, Zen Integra has all the resources in the world to do all the fancy Citrix things we want to do. But more often than not, all we do is VDI desktops for our end users because that gives them a, a landing place, a workspace. Uh, yeah, I use the word workspace early in this, but the, a workspace, it's simple for them that they understand that, let them get their job done. And, and that original XenDesktop product still still lives today and it's still something that you can, you can buy Oh, as part of your Citrix, uh, standalone stack or part of a bigger stack.

Speaker 2:
12:57

No, that's right. Yeah, the names have changed, but the core concepts are very similar or the same. Um, and the architecture is the same, uh, until you start moving into the cloud, then you're still leveraging FMA, but you're not managing it necessarily, at least not all of it. I will talk about that in a few minutes.

Speaker 1:
13:15

Yeah. So let's, let's talk about modern day Citrix products, the mainstream products, the, uh, the virtual app and desktop related products. The ones that came out of that original, um, that original wind view world. Uh, the ones that came out of the[inaudible] source world, the ones that came out of the, uh, uh, came out of the original XenDesktop. So I guess the easy one to cover real quick and honestly, I wouldn't plan on talking about this one, but, uh, now that we're now that we're into the conversation, the Zen server conversation, right, that's the original S's in source acquisition, which gives customers a hypervisor from, from Citrix that can be very simple, uh, and cost effective included with the product that allows them to have a, a platform to run their workloads on.

Speaker 2:
13:58

Yup. Absolutely. And of course they've changed the name of that to Citrix hypervisor, which I might've stolen your thunder there, Andy. Um, but uh, yeah, that was the foundation for the renaming. Uh, it was a big deal back in 2007 cause at that time you really only had, um, VMware is the predominant hypervisor in the market and that's what everyone ran a virtual desktops on. And then Citrix comes in and acquires a company and, and the folds it into the stack and now you can, you can get all of that in one place.

Speaker 1:
14:29

Well the other players in that space really was Microsoft and hyper V I think a Citrix didn't see that progressing fast enough to give people options. And, and so at the end of the day, you ended up with, with, um, you know, vSphere ESX, ESX PSI, uh, you had hyper V with system center, virtual machine manager, you have Zen server, which is, as you pointed out, Citrix hypervisor today. Uh, and I, and you still have, you know, workloads that aren't the actual cloud like KVMs that, that do. Uh, and well now you have a Nutanix Acropolis, right? So you have four or five players in that space and they all can play a role. I think one of the nice things to highlight here around the Citrix product is, uh, when it's, when it's kept for the proper use case, which in this case would be Citrix desktop and have virtualization of the virtualization of the machine workloads. It is a very viable and of course cost effective way to get Citro Citrix workloads up and going. Absolutely. It is, we have a number of customers that are using it, um, and using it well and effectively. And it's important to all the GPU stuff that we mentioned earlier as well. Yeah. The integrations there that GPU supports, they are now admitted the league. We also have customers that have very poorly performing Citrix in server environments and more often than not it's because it's not been the, the care and feeding wasn't there. It was stood up and assumed that it would just run forever. And like everything else it needs to, it needs to have some care and feeding. While I know that, you know, we've run into folks running older VM-ware environments as well. So, um, you know, they'll still be running on four Oh or four one or something. And, and, uh, I wondering why their performance is poor or, or they're running on slow storage. There's so many factors to perform a desktop that you really need somebody that knows what they're doing to put it in place and to help help with the care and feeding once you get it going to keep it running optimally. Yep. Yep. Keep it simple, get a little help as needed and right. Right. All right. So let's, let's jump into what has become of, of wind view when frame metal frame and the XenDesktops in app story. So, uh, let's just walk through the, what I'll call the traditional products from Citrix, which are the on on prem products, which is kinda hard to say these days cause there's nothing that says you can't take that, uh, on-prem product and put it into a cloud, uh, where you still host and run your own licenses and your own license server. Uh, and we'll start at the very bottom of that stack. And I love talking about this one. I know there's limited use cases, but the Citrix virtual desktop standard, uh, which has the nice benefit of coming either as a concurrent license or a user slash device license. And, and we've got a podcast coming up where we're going to get the licensing guys on to, to help us fully understand user device licensing. But that's the simple one, right? It, it, it does, it does what and essentially just allows you to do, excuse me, what it says, which is, um, marginalize the desktop, um, on, on your choice of hypervisor. Right?[inaudible] specifically, it's a the client desktop, right? So you can't connect to a, a, a server desktop. Uh, you're, you're gonna run your VAs inside of a single user, a windows seven windows 10 session, uh, but it knocks out and checks that VDI box. That's, I mean, a ton of customers really. That's all they're looking for. Again, we as a company, that's all we use today. I mean, we're, we're looking at workspace, we're looking at some other things, but getting people into their desktop is our number one goal. And that's a windows 10 desktop.

Speaker 2:
17:50

Absolutely.

Speaker 1:
17:52

Now I should point this out. This is what I call the a, the inexpensive Citrix solution. And for a lot of people, that sounds odd to say cause I think of Citrix as a premium product and this is a premium product, but for, for just a very simple use case, uh, and so, you know, you can look at this product either in a CCU concurrent model or user device model. And I think, uh, something like list price is$200 a user for the CCU model. Uh, it's a a hundred dollars a user for the, uh, the user device a model. But it is a, it's a great way to get into the world of Citrix and get the Citrix ball rolling, which then will hopefully lead into more use cases around, you know, application virtualization or um, you know, Azure or Amazon, AWS related use cases. But that, that's the easy one. It's simple and, and not a lot of people know about it.

Speaker 2:
18:40

No, they don't. You're right.

Speaker 1:
18:42

Okay. So as we move up that stack, we can move into the world of what's now called Citrix virtual apps, which is the replacement for XenApp. And what this is going to allow you to do is connect to either a, a published or a seamless app. I can't believe we've gone this far without saying seamless app, but an application that appears to be running a local that's really executing and being presented from a server O S multi-user server, less on the backend.

Speaker 2:
19:05

Yeah. And this is, this is a kind of a throwback to the original use case going back many years. And that is the ability to virtual virtualized, like you said, anything that virtualized the app itself, the apps running on a, you know, in the data center and then the user is accessing that happen. It looks like you said seamless. What that means is it looks like just any other app on your desktop, you can minimize, maximize and so forth. Um, you know, reshape it, um, change the colors, those types of things. And, um, and that app operates just as if it were installed locally and the users in theory, none the wiser. Uh, so it's a very effective use case, uh, that a lot of customers use to this day.

Speaker 1:
19:44

Now, in addition to that, if you go back to my story around how I got into the desktop virtualization world and taking that app, windows Explorer and putting a switch on it, uh, there's nothing in that world of Citrix virtual app. Uh, you know, th that evolved from, you know, when frame, um, and others, uh, that won't allow you to do a desktop, right? If you want to do a server multi-user desktop, you can do it just using Citrix virtual apps, licensing.

Speaker 2:
20:07

Yes. Um, a lot of folks, you know, a lot of folks call would call that, um, you know, terminal services desktops. Uh, but the, the term that we hear most often used, and the one that's really more correct as session hosts faced or session based desktops, um, where you can run multiple instances of the desktop on a, on a single physical server running, you know, 2016 or 2019 server. Uh, so you're virtualizing or you're carving up that, that server into sessions. And each of those sessions can be a desktop. Some of the sessions can be apps, you can have a mix. Um, typically we architect them in a special way when you're mixing apps and desktops, but nevertheless, the concept remains the same.

Speaker 1:
20:47

Yeah. And this, uh, this virtual app model, uh, it can be done, certainly concurrent base. Can it also be done user device? I don't remember.

Speaker 2:
20:56

Um, I believe so, yes.

Speaker 1:
20:58

Okay. I know, I know it can be concurrent, which is valuable. And then, you know, like I said with the other product, it's also cloud friendly. Uh, it's not cloud native, but it's cloud friendly. So if you wanted to lift and shift or just reproduce your, your environment in the cloud, in a cloud of public, uh, infrastructure as a service cloud like Azure or AWS, you could certainly do that. And there would be no, there'll be nothing wrong with doing that. It just wasn't built from day one to integrate clouds. But it certainly can, uh, and does have technology in it to make calls out to cloud API.

Speaker 2:
21:28

Right, exactly.

Speaker 1:
21:31

Well, as we continue up that stack, uh, the next product is Citrix virtual app and desktop. And, and what this one gets you is the best of both worlds. Plus one more little, um, well a couple, two more, uh, little known, uh, technologies. Uh, and that is the ability to do the, the app, uh, from a server OS, um, to do the desktop from a multi-user server. Wes, I see the ability to do a true VDI, so a connection to a single user windows 10 session as, uh, as well as the, the server desktop. Uh, and it also has two other not commonly talked about use cases, which I happen to like a lot. One of which is the ability to publish at the application from a client, alas called a VM hosted app. Uh, and what this does allows you to take a, an app that wasn't written for a server, Wes or, or needs to be run single user at a time and, and present that seamlessly to the end user. Uh, so it's probably not the lead use case for apps, but it's a, it's a fallback method in case you have an app that just doesn't play well on a, a multi-user server environment.

Speaker 2:
22:31

Yeah. That was, uh, designed for those apps that just simply needed to run on windows seven or now with this 10, uh, they just wouldn't behave properly like you said, on, on 2016 or 2012 or two or 2008 or two. Um, that the hosted apps, I mean, the downside of that is a great, it's a great solution is said you had to have a, you have to stand up an individual VM for, uh, for each instance of that application. It wasn't a multi-user aware, but, uh, we could talk about how that's changing as well. Um, later on.

Speaker 1:
23:00

Yeah, no, we definitely will. Uh, the, the other use case, and I, I love this use case. I was a big proponent of it, but now I've got customers that are addicted to it and that is the remote PC where instead of connecting yourself to a individual virtual machine over virtualization presentation, now you're connecting people to a physical machine over virtualization presentation. And that's really intended to be a short term solution. It's really intended for maybe administrators that need to get a high fidelity use use back into their desktop. Uh, but now I've got three or four clients that I've exposed this to and they've built up a, a bunch of users that are using it and now I'm going back and saying, okay, that was supposed to be short term. Now you're supposed to have those users connecting to a virtual desktop. Even from there, their cubicle or desk. Uh, but now,

Speaker 2:
23:46

now they know they love their physical PC and remote access to it. Yeah, we, I, I had, uh, in the past I've had customers that did just what you said. And, and initially it was just a remote access play for administrators or something along the, along those lines. And then it, it grew and grew until we had these, you know, they had these huge, uh, if you will, huge rooms with desktops that users connected to and we're talking to them about, you know, that really doesn't make sense. You should be virtualizing those desktops. You don't need all those machines. But the most interesting one I found was a manufacturing company who had, um, who had given all of their users, um, laptops as their quote unquote dr solution. So they are, their presumption was that the users would take the laptops home with them every night. And that way if something happened to the corporate office, they'd have the data on their laptops and, or, and they'd have access and so forth. What they found was as they wanted around the building after hours, the laptops were sitting on the desks still plugged in. Um, so they went to a remote PC model and eventually evolved into a virtual desktop model. That made a whole lot more sense for dr.

Speaker 1:
24:51

yeah, I've seen a, I've seen a one page written dr business continuity plan that said, we're going to give everybody a laptops. They're going to take them home every night. Uh, that was, that was 10 plus years ago and I couldn't even believe 10 years ago, somebody managed to write that down and believe in it.

Speaker 2:
25:05

Yeah. This was probably about five or six years ago. And, and the thing that cracked me up was when they said, we wandered around here one evening during the week, you know, like seven, eight o'clock at night. And, and they were about 90% of the machines were still in the building. So their, dr their dr solution was, uh, pretty much pointless. Um, so they ended up evolving to remote PC, but they use it as a stop gap, which is kind of what you were alluding to earlier and eventually went to a full VDI model that really just made a lot more sense.

Speaker 1:
25:36

Well, the other use case, which is probably even less common now as you know, if you have a high end power user that needs a true dedicated machine with all the horsepower, um, maybe even something like a moonshot type of scenario, HP moonshot, but definitely not what most people should be doing in the world of desktop virtualization.

Speaker 2:
25:53

No.

Speaker 1:
25:55

Okay. Um, so that kinda tells a story around Citrix, virtual app and desktop. Again, very cloud friendly. You can move this stuff to the cloud for sure. Um, and then in addition to that, uh, in the on prem solution, we have, uh, you know, the workspace and the workspace bundle and that's the ability to take the things Citrix is doing around content collaboration, AKA share file, uh, Zen mobile. Both of those things are cloud now anyway. Uh, and then the bundle that together with, uh, the virtual app and desktop and maybe bring in some gateways and a Citrix ADC. But you know, that's kind of the bundling of all the things Citrix does. It includes the virtual app and desktop story we've been talking about.

Speaker 2:
26:34

Yes, the, uh, homework space concept. Um, all when typically when you say the word workspace in it, um, I believe, correct me if I'm wrong, Andy, but if you see workspace it, it usually means it's

Speaker 1:
26:44

on, it's usually means it's in the cloud or are there on prem workspace offerings now too? No, still. Right. So the key word, and we're going to get to this in a minute and the keyword is when you serve a service at the end of it, yeah, that's right. That becomes interchangeable with the cloud. Uh, but we're going to get to that in a second. But even I struggle with that sometimes, you know, reviewing SRWs and things like that, I look at them and I'm like, is this on, on premises or cloud? And you have to really parse it out to make sure you understand it. Um, if it says, you know, service, like you said, it's usually cloud. Yeah. And that's why we're doing this podcast, right. Cause we used and um, you know, if it's, if it's service, but if it's not service, then it's an on, on prem solution, which, uh, as we've alluded to several times a year, that doesn't mean it can't go in the cloud. It just doesn't come as a service in the cloud. It very much can be cloud friendly. Yes. So, you know, financially, right, I'll do this, those solutions, everything from the, uh, the virtual desktop standard CCU or user-based license, all the way up to the workspace and workspace bundled license. As you go through those progressions, that becomes more valuable and more expensive. Uh, but more value for sure, bringing all those technologies together. Uh, and, and then we move into this world of as a service. And so what's as a service means, and you can insert the word cloud if you want, or you can leave the word cloud out. Some people have an affection towards cloud and some people don't. Uh, but as we started talking about as a service from Citrix, it means the control planes for these, uh, these solutions, specifically the virtual app and desktop solutions become something that Citrix hosts for you, uh, and makes available to you, uh, through some type of connection, uh, mechanism. Um, but that again, starts with the world of just simply VDI. Uh, so the, the Citrix virtual desktop service[inaudible] back to that, uh, back to that, that standard service, which allows a lot of people to accomplish what they need to, which is just a desktop virtualization strategy, right? Yup. Just a desktop in the cloud or actually the infrastructure in the cloud. The desktop could be anywhere. That's right. It can be back on for him. It can be in another cloud. It could be in five different clouds. I was listening to a, uh, a windows podcast earlier, talking about some of the things the government's doing and, and the guy was, he said, what I love to hear people say, what, you shouldn't have a cloud strategy. You should have a clouds strategy. Right. Which is easier said than done, but easier than ever compared to what it used to be. So, um, you know, that, that low cost and that's one of the reasons why we're doing this podcast because I've had a lot of conversations the last week or two around, you know, Citrix being way too expensive. And that's just not the case. I mean if you, if you are just looking for certain aspects or if you know that to get the ball going, you need certain aspects of something as simple as VDI, Citrix has that solution and you can very much get into that solution and make some headway and calls solve challenges for your company just with the a Citrix virtual desktop standard solution. Yeah, we have a lot of, we have a number of customers that are able to do that. Just a, that's really all they need. Um, so you know, by what fits your, so your, your need well to be, to be clear and, and you know, yes, by what fits your need today, but know that the services are there to extend beyond that. And Citrix is doing a great job of building net that roadmap to the future. And as, as you understand that, you know, SAS apps, um, outside of the desktop and other apps need to become part of what you offer to your end user, then it's especially as a service, it's easy just to flip the switches and make that able yup. And you can, you can move up as you need to as things, as things evolve in your business or at the same time, if you know those things are coming in your business, then you start off at the end of the spectrum. Okay. So let's go through these in progression. None of these have a concurrent offering. It's all user base. Now I'd like to be clear with people. It's not a named user base, even though it does become named, but it does at some point that user license, um, gets back into the pool if the user doesn't use it in a timely enough fashion. I want to say it's 90 days. It might be 60 days, but, uh, it's not that you're dedicating a license to a user, it's just dedicated to them for a period of time. Yeah, I think it's, I think it's 90 days, but you're absolutely right is that it's a, it goes back into the pool if it goes on used for a certain period of time or the employee leaves the organization or things along those nature. Now, before we move off the, uh, the standard or the verse, Citrix virtual desktop service, uh, I do want to point something out. A lot of people are really excited around the Microsoft WPD windows virtual desktop, which is part of their entitlements as, uh, as an M three client or in three 65 customer of Microsoft. Um, the standard, excuse me, the service, the virtual desktop service very much, uh, works with that. However, the entitlement of using a multi-user windows 10, which Microsoft is now enabled a, is not a part of the Citrix virtual desktop servers. You have to move to one of the other solutions for that. Um, the next thing up in the stack is the, uh, Citrix virtual app service, uh, which allows you to connect to server based entities like, um, apps that we published seamlessly or even the desktop. So Citrix virtual app service will allow you to do windows 20, 19 server desktops, if that makes sense. Right. And, and the key here is that, uh, that virtual delivery agent within the, uh, the, the operating system is meant for a server based multi-user session. So, uh, as we continued through that progression, the, uh, the next thing and that order is, uh, the Citrix virtual app and desktop service, which goes back to what we talked about a while ago with the ability to connect to server based apps, um, server-based desktops, client based apps and client based. Um, as well as I think remote PCs included, uh, because you, because you also have the, uh, you know, the, the virtual delivery agent for the server OS now we can connect to the, uh, multi-session windows 10 Azure, uh, as well as single session. So it kinda kinda gets all the check boxes there.

Speaker 2:
33:00

Yeah, I didn't realize they, when is virtual? Oh, I'm sorry though, when this 10 Azure multi-session was part of that. That's, that was, that's news to me.

Speaker 1:
33:09

Well, the key is the, um, the virtual delivery agents. The multi-user OLS is really the key to that. It's not so much based on the climate as, you know, the, the kernel is very similar. The operating systems very similar. It's just some of the other pieces of it make it different. But, uh, it's really, it's really the VDA that matters. Okay. And so that, you know, walks you through and again, as you go from the, the, the virtual desktop stand and virtual desktop service up through the virtual app and desktop service, uh, all user-based, um, it becomes more and more expensive, but you get more value at the same time. And then finally, if we end up at the, you know, the Citrix cream of the crop, we're sitting there at the Citrix workspace service, which, uh, the term workspace, which you highlighted a minute ago, but as a service means that everything is part of a service. So you got your, um, you know, your virtual app and desktop as a service. You've got your, uh, Zen mobile or, or a Citrix, a device management as a service. This is what we would call that. Now you have a content collaboration. And then of course, I should bring back the fact that now we have the, uh, the Citrix hypervisor, which is part of all of these things and an entitlement of having all of these licenses, including the on prem traditional licenses.

Speaker 2:
34:19

Yeah. And it also the, the worst by service. Um, I believe standard, you know, I may be a misspeak here because I'm, I'm not that from estimator with you Andy, as with as in terms of what comes with each dish. But, um, you know, they, what we used to call the device management or Zen mobile is endpoint management now and, and that's delivered as a service. And, uh, there's also the gateway service which enables the users to connect through the cloud hosted NetScaler gateway as it were, that that simplifies the architecture. Um, and then there was one other thing that I will hold. The other thing is analytics. The ability to have visibility into all of this stuff, uh, you know, in a centralized way can all is also a part of this at least at some level.

Speaker 1:
35:04

Yeah, we should do, while we've got people listening, we should probably walk through real quick the differences, right. So we've got the workspace standard service, which is the ability to, um, SAS apps. Um, we have the, uh, the premium service, which brings in the, uh, the, the virtual app and desktop I believe. Let me double check that. Um, and then we have the workspace premium plus, which is going to bring everything together. So I'm going to pull up a slide here, but the ability to do, um, everything as a service in the Citrix bucket would be certainly the workspace premium plus.

Speaker 2:
35:38

Yes, absolutely. Yeah. I think premium is where you get the bulk of it, except for a, it's kinda like they, they've done, if you start with the, uh, the premium, it looks like the Siva ad search, Citrix virtual apps and desktops, uh, and hypervisor, uh, becomes a part of it when you go to premium plus. Um, but most of the other offerings like, uh,

Speaker 1:
36:00

[inaudible]

Speaker 2:
36:00

like endpoint management and analytics and content collaboration come in the premium skew. If I'm, um, if I'm reading this right.

Speaker 1:
36:07

No, they definitely do. Yeah. Actually, you know, I think it's the, uh, the premium is the, uh, the content collaboration and the device management piece. And then if you want the virtual app and desktop, which is, you know, kind of the, the roots of this whole conversation we've had here, then your premium plus. Right.

Speaker 2:
36:26

And that's pretty much given you everything analytics, endpoint management, content collaboration, um, and so forth at first lesson desktops of course. Um, so you're getting and as well as, um, a belief

Speaker 1:
36:39

that also gives you the gateway service. Yeah. Actually, you know, I think the gateway service to some degree because of the analytics piece that comes along to this, I think it's part of all the different workspace options. Yeah. Yeah, it is. You're right. So bill, hopefully that was helpful for people and it helps me every once in a while just to talk through it. And I'm sure there's pieces that we left out that we can certainly come back and clean up later. But you know, going from wind view and the idea that ed, uh, Yaka Bucci had back in the day that, you know, you could turn windows or some type of a client operating system into a main frame, uh, with the high fidelity, you know, a good user experience, uh, you know, has come a long way. And now we're to the point where we're doing it and we're, we're doing it as a service and you know, if you're a Citrix customer and you need an entry level product that helps you accomplish what your goals are today and if you are looking for a solution that later brings in, you know, the things like SAS, uh, the things like content collaboration but still has the virtual app and virtual desktop piece of it that uh, you know, we're all going to use them for a bunch of years, uh, includes the analytics piece. And then I guess we would be remiss if we didn't bring up where Citrix has really taken this whole stack two, which is the, uh, the intelligence piece. So Citrix workspace offerings with intelligence where you can actually, um, get kind of a personal assistant, a as part of all this, that when you land on that home screen that that workspace screen, uh, you're getting input and insight from, uh, you know, bots and things that are telling you, Hey, this is what I think you need to be doing today. And, and making sure that you have that in your visibility.

Speaker 2:
38:11

Yeah, and we, we kind of talked about the workspace in the, in a prior, uh, prior podcast and how that has evolved, um, to be what it is today, which is that that desktop plane or that workspace plane that contains, you know, everything in it, uh, in the sense that you've got not just access to searchable Citrix, virtual apps and desktops, but also your SAS and web based apps. Um, and with integrated single sign and, and high fidelity watermarking. And so there's, there's a whole lot more to, to the workspace. Then just to collaborate. The aggregation of of virtual apps and desktops and endpoint management and content collaboration. Those are our solid products in and of themselves. But the ability is also layer in the SAS and web app that, that a lot of customers are using today and enable that to be, um, done. So with some level of an intelligence and the bots you spoke of is really a light years of evolution from where we were back in the 80s when this started.

Speaker 1:
39:08

I think that's a key thing, right? It's an evolution of where we were and what mattered then to where we are and what matters today. And in some cases, what matters today is the same thing that mattered in then. In some cases. What matters today is a massive evolution of where we were at. And I think the nice thing about the Citrix product set is it, it has all those in there and they're all, to some degree, especially the older stuff, a super mature and they're leading the way with the newer stuff at the same time. I was in a meeting earlier today and you know, there's a lot of other players in this space that are trying to tackle the virtual app and desktop as a service specifically, and they've got a lot of things they've got to overcome, uh, around the, uh, the architecture as well as the presentation protocol. Uh, I like to call those scars on your knuckles. Right. I've, I've worked on a lot of stuff and I can, I can fix about anything the third or fourth time, but the first couple of times it's a lot of learning curve that has to go on.

Speaker 2:
40:01

That's right. And that, and that's what those, these startups are having to deal with.

Speaker 1:
40:04

Yeah. Uh, all right sir. Well, I appreciate you jumping on with this. I want to do for a while. We just kind of got lucky and the other podcast didn't, didn't happen. So we had a chance to do this one and we'll have this out of the way and then maybe, uh, maybe a month from now or five years from now or revisit it and find out where we've gone. That's all right. That'd be great. Good, good news about our space. It never had never ends. It's going to just keep going until well until I don't work anymore. That's for sure. Exactly. All right guys, we'll bill a, any parting shots? I mean, where can, where can people find bill Sutton?

Speaker 2:
40:37

Oh, they can talk bill Sutton on Twitter at B Sutton in 2009. Not very original, not as original as yours, but uh, one of these days I'll, I'll come up with a moniker and I'll change it, but right now it's at[inaudible] 2009. That's B S U T T O N two zero zero nine.

Speaker 1:
40:53

All right. Well great. And I think, uh, I think we'd be remiss if I didn't bring up that if you, if you could do a project with integrity or going to work, Bill's going to be leading to some degree, that project and have a lot of insights. So certainly some value in that from a, from an Integra customer perspective. Yeah. And then for me, right. So, uh, I got a lot of topics I like to make sure I cover in some of these podcasts, but I want to make sure people know about synergy and that you're going to synergy. And if you're not, please reach out. Let's figure out a way to get you there. We've got our events that Pete Downing does a tremendous job leading. If you need more about that, good as integra.com forward slash events. But you know, we do a lot of free trainings where things like we're talking about here get flushed out in much more detail and they're open to anyone. I mean, we, we've let other, uh, partners, other competitors attend these things. It's not a, it's not something we try to hide. We try to, we try to lead through education and that's education for all. Yeah. This is one of the things that led me to you guys as you know, Andy. Yeah, no, we're, we're, we're proud to do it and want to do more of it and we'll keep coming up with ways but good stuff. All right guys. Well with that, we'll wrap it up and thank you for listening to another session of the Citrix sessions. Thank you. Talk to you soon. Bye. Bye.