4: The Citrix Session – Citrix Workspace: Tune in for a great workspace experience

Nov 19, 2019

This session highlights the following Citrix Blog:
https://www.citrix.com/blogs/2019/08/19/citrix-workspace-tune-in-for-a-great-workspace-experience/

Host: Andy Whiteside
Co-Host: Bill Sutton
Author: Kevin Binder

Kevin Binder is a Citrix Principal Product Marketing Manager for XenMobile Enterprise Mobility Management solutions by day…..fantasy football fanatic by night.

Speaker 1:
0:01

Hello everyone, and welcome to episode four of the Citrix session podcast. I'm your host, Andy Whiteside. Uh, got with me. Of course, bill Sutton. Bill has it going, going well, Andy, good morning, good afternoon, wherever you happen to be. Yeah, there's no tail and hopefully people are listening to this all hours of the day and nights, correct. If they are, that means we're getting some getting our point across, getting some value out there and you know, as a recorded podcast, hopefully that enables people to take into the content whether they're walking the dog or, or heading out to a nightclub or heading home from a nightclub. I, I doubt that last one applies very often, but if it does, then great. Happy to, happy to have that be the reality of it. That's right. So, uh, this week we've got our, uh,[inaudible] our blog that we're going to review by a Kevin Kevin binder. Kevin, we invited Kevin to join us. It was very, a little last minute, I guess you would say, but Kevin wrote a, an awesome blog around the Citrix workspace. Uh, tune in for a great workspace experience. And I think there's a play on that title there, but the goal of today is to go through this, this blog and kind of give the listener some, so more insights on what Kevin is talking about here and maybe expand upon it and add our own little twist to it. But uh, maybe at a later date we get Kevin to join us. Yeah, that'd be great. I do want to highlight a couple of things. Uh, you know, when you send over this link and said, Hey, let's do this one. I, I, I looked at it, so that's great. I do want to make sure we accomplish two things though before you can get started. I want to make sure I highlight two things that are kind of kind of big for me. I'm a big stickler on naming conventions and making sure that name gets out there properly before it gets misused and then turned into mini mini reuses of the, the name. So I spent some time with Citrix a couple of times recently, a developer conference, the converge conference. They had a as well as a partner conference last week. And I want to be very clear to set the record straight. The Citrix product, uh, going forward should be called the Citrix workspace with intelligence. So for awhile there we've been calling it the intelligent workspace. I don't know why, but for very good reasons. I'm sure Citrix has decided to call this a, the workspace with intelligence. And there'll be multiple, multiple flavors, uh, all from a standard edition all the way up to a premium plus edition. Interesting. I guess that's a marketing thing perhaps, but nevertheless, uh, just make sure that we, we get out of the habit of speaking about it with the old name and, and, or the kind of the name that's been going around and make sure we talk about it as, as you said, the Citrix workspace with intelligence, which she highlights in this blog article. He does. Yeah, he definitely does. He definitely calls it out. Yeah. Probably for good reason. Yeah. The other, uh, the other reason why I wanted to stop and pause before we get started, uh, is because I'm a, I'm an old school citrus guy, just like you are. And I think we're gonna, we're gonna take it back to going to take it back to the old school here in a few minutes. But, um, I did want to let the listeners know that I've had several conversations with executives at Citrix as high up as you can go. And you know, they are committed to continuing evolve the virtual app and desktop portion of the technology. They are taking a, a big swing at this workspace concept because that is has been the promise of technology for many years. But they are also committed to making a virtual app and desktop, you know, when frame metal frame presentation servers in abs and desktop, uh, continue to evolve that technology. And, and one of the goals of this podcast for me is to make sure we continue to highlight what they're doing there. And we have some, um, some podcasts coming up where we do that.

Speaker 2:
3:28

Yeah. I think as a listener, we'll see as we go through this, that, um, that this is, uh, this is not leaving behind that which has been developed in the past. It's an extension and an expansion to accommodate, you know, newer use cases, the, the, the nature of technology and delivery as it is today. But we're also, you know, carrying forward what we've done in the past. Cause there's still definitely a many use cases for the, the virtual apps and desktops technology going forward.

Speaker 1:
3:56

Yeah, we're not, we're not done with wind 32 based apps putting the desktop anytime soon. No. So Kevin starts his blog off by painting a picture and I love it when people do that because it allows, you know, simple minded, simple thinking, people like myself to, to kind of get my boat in the right spot and be able to push, push it in the right direction. Uh, I just visualize a little little paper boat and little pond in central park when I say that because I, you know, I think it's really important that you start off heading in the right direction mentally before you try to dissect something. And, and what Kevin talks about here is he cut the cord and I did the similar thing about a year ago in our house. We, we cut the cord on cable, finally got, got out of pain that big bill. Um, however we still pay for internet access through various services. A cable in my case, a spectrum to be specific. Um, so we have some bandwidth but we don't have the TV being provided necessarily. And we moved to a service. Uh, and, and in my case it was, uh, we went from Hulu to YouTube TV back to Hulu. Uh, and then I have a couple others like ESPN and a couple of others. The ACC network live in the South and I'm an NC state guy. Um, but uh, I can relate to what Kevin is talking about here. Righty. He, he found a way to cut the cord, but then that created new challenges with many different types of services that he had to figure out how to aggregate together. Uh, in my world, that was pretty simple because I have a Samsung TV, I have about four Samsung TVs and they have the Samsung operating system would start you off at this, uh, this plane where I'm, yeah. Of all the different services that show up, you know, when you hit the home button, that's where it goes. And then from there I find myself digging into whatever service I need to get into for that moment. Whether it's Hulu, Netflix, uh, YouTube, uh, ESPN, ACC network, HBO, you know, it's, it's a, it's a good situation to be able to navigate, but it also highlights the fact that navigation is key.

Speaker 2:
5:52

Yeah, I think, um, a couple things there. I, you know, my, in my own personal situation compared to you, I, I'm just, I'm still kind of, and we'll talk about this in a few minutes. I still kind of have the old school, um, the old school environment, I still have, I guess you'd call it cable TV. Uh, but we have talked about on numerous times cutting the cord as well. Uh, we have Netflix and Amazon and, um, of course the HBO go subscription, those sorts of things. But, uh, still have the cable. In my case it's fires. Uh, we have fire TV and then we also of course have a couple of Samsungs and have the Samsung app. But, um, and an Apple TV floating around. So a lot of things, but a lot, you know, still rooted in the old school with the cable TV subscription. And one of these days I'll, uh, I'll, I'll cut the cord, but not quite yet.

Speaker 1:
6:41

You know, your, your story might be even more applicable because you've got the old cable TV solution, uh, which to me represents the wind 32 scenario of apps. Um, and so you've kind of, you've kind of, you've got a worse, um, you know, I will highlight here, and I'll bring it back to this in a second, but, uh, you know, the, the, uh, the desktop though, the windows desktop was kind of created just like my Samsung desktop, if you will, was kind of created to help solve this challenge and give us all this, you know, ubiquitous, a familiar looking place to start and a bunch of Citrix users, you know, log into a windows desktop and then launched Citrix related sessions or they log into a Citrix or some other provided desktop and then launch sessions. But I think your challenge of having the old school, you know ties into that desktop story as well. Yes, absolutely. So I guess I should've said this and to begin with this, this is our interpretation of Kevin's blog here and you know, anything we say here is all our opinion. I probably should have highlighted that in the beginning, but I'm going to tell now the way I tell the story of what the workspace is. Oh, you know what? Before I do that, let me, let me stay with what Kevin had a, I've gotten to the point within the last month or so that I don't know if it's a Samsung, I think it's actually Amazon and Netflix that they've somehow hit the button that said it's okay to tell me stuff and when I turn it on and go to my home screen now they start to tell me what they think. I would like based on things I've watched before without me soliciting them to tell me that. Or maybe I, maybe I opted in somewhere along the way. But my point there is that is an evolution of the workspace, which I described with the Samsung homescreen. Um, is now allowing apps to tell me things, uh, that I can then click a button and interact with. That is,

Speaker 2:
8:29

that is the workspace with intelligence, right? That is what it is. I mean, I think some would call it artificial intelligence. Someone just call it intelligence, but at the end of the day it's very similar, if not the same. Um, you know, I have a similar situation here. I've got young kids like you do and uh, they're supposed to click when they go into Netflix, they're supposed to click kids, the kids profile. Um, but invariably they, they click my name and then I come in a couple days later and I've got,

Speaker 1:
8:56

you know, suggestions for various cartoon and teen shows. So, you know, it's, it's, it's not perfect, but it's, um, it definitely is doing what you're telling it to do. Even if you don't know it. It's try and write that artificial intelligence. AI. Yeah, for sure. It's a, is it, is it AI or is it analytics? Is there a different term for it? No, I think it's AI or machine learning or machine learning. There you guys, things are all over the place. So that's the SIU, emerging technologies, you know, the big, the big one there is Tesla, you know, learning about how people drive and how traffic operates and being able to accommodate it. I think they've had pretty good success there, but you know, there's more, more, a lot more work to be done in that field. Yeah. You know, on that topic real quick, I drove home, I'm from Raleigh, North Carolina yesterday. And uh, I had, I had cruise control set most of the way on a four lane highway or bigger. Right. And uh, we had, um, we had a cruise control, but we also had the radar part that was on the front of the car. So it's gotten so much better. The technology's come so far where it, it knew when I needed to slow down without me having to go back and forth, back and forth. Adaptive cruise control. Yeah. Oh, it was awesome. It was awesome. Now, having said that and I'm getting ready to talk about my wife, you're in a second. Um, she will not use cruise control now and things. Having it understand where other cars are around you is not a, is not helpful. It actually hurts her. And in other words, mentally, the idea that the car is going to react first, uh, totally, totally is outside of where she wants to be. She would rather have just the old school cruise control, um, or just, you know, push the pedal, push the pedal that off the pedal all the way there. Huh. Interesting. So the question is do you trust it? Right. Is it smart enough? Whatever. This morning I, the whole Tesla thing trying to drive me around, I, I just, I just don't know that I trust the roads enough for Tesla to be able to have what it needs. I don't trust other drivers. Uh, I'm with you on the roads, but I don't know. I'm not sure I trust other drivers and maybe not even myself to some in some cases, but, uh, uh, yeah, I have a real reservation about that. Although I think the cars are really cool. This really, really good technology. Yeah. So, so let me try my way of explaining the, the workspace evolution. I start actually with the, uh, you know, I'm sitting in front of a desk right now. It's an old school, wooden desk. It's really, it's a wooden desk in my house. Not, not because of its usefulness. It is still useful, but because it looks, it looks good. Right? It's in my, it's in my, uh, front room. It's in an office. I'm not in the actual Integra office today, so it's just a nice looking wooden desk. And you know, I mentioned my wife, I'm going to go on this desk right now. There's flowers and there's pictures of the kids and there's pictures of family members, that kind of stuff. And there's one keyboard, one mouse, one stapler, a and a, and a decent size monitor. At the same time, there are bills that need to be paid within the next couple of days sitting on this desk. And so the desk kind of, you know, in 1980s, early nineties for me, uh, for me personally, but for my wife today, this is still how she gets stuff done. She's still has um, you know, bills stuck in certain places of the desk. They remind her to pay this one first, pay this one second. And that is that 1970s, 80s concept of a, of a desk and every, every year before that. I mean many, many, many years before that. But that's the way we used to do it. Right? We had this, this one thing with a stack of papers on one side that was important and then a single document here or there, there was more important. Uh, but that's where I, that's where you sat down and started writing out your checks and writing out letters and things you needed to get taken care of. You don't still have an in and an outbox on your desk. And uh, well I've got, yeah, I think there is. I mean, this is not my desk. Um, however, having said that, before I left the office Friday, I did have different things stacked on my desk so that when I came in Monday, I would know what to know what to hit first. But there is a box, there is a box, and I think that's an inbox. Uh, and on the wall there are three more boxes. And I think those are four less important but still inbox related activities.

Speaker 2:
12:57

Right. Well this relates very, very closely to what we're seeing in the digital world now.

Speaker 1:
13:02

Yeah. No one else is awesome by the song I'm looking at right now. There's a a, there's a check diff, there's a bill to Prudential, uh, and it's, and it's laying there on top and it's open. So it must be important, uh, and needed to be taken care of. And then there's another one to a U S bank that's, that's uh, maybe less important it, it got put on the desk without being open. What does that mean? I don't know. Maybe some intelligence could help me. Exactly. Yup. And so if I fast forward that mentality, right, that, that concept and go do let's say 19, uh, 1993 ish, maybe 95 ish, we had this concept of, um, the computer and that screen that you start with on that computer, someone called that the desktop. And that is in theory going to replace my wooden plane here that I have, but as my future desktop and somewhat had the, uh, um, intuition, maybe a of calling it the[inaudible] of the desktop or whatever reason they call it a desktop. It's really just the start screen. It's really my workspace in the technology world. And, and that's where we started to, uh, started to start our day from. Um, you know, one great example that I'm sure you've met people in your life that they don't save anything to the documents folder. They don't pay anything a one dry. They save everything to the desktop because worst case scenario, that's their desktop and they can find it.

Speaker 2:
14:19

Yes, absolutely. I think the best top was a, I think probably that term was, you know, I don't want to give attribution where it's not doing necessarily, but I think a big part of that was Microsoft with the windows platform. Um, you know, calling it a desktop, but you know, pretty much beyond, beyond just Microsoft. A lot of the various players in the, in the industry called it a desktop. It's kind of kind of a throw was a throwback to what you're just referring to the physical desktop. And that would have that at a computer based desktop, arguably a virtual type of, of, of uh, desktop, uh, in the computer itself. Not virtual in the way we think of it today. But back then, you know, that's kind of what it was.

Speaker 1:
14:59

Well, and I bet if you tie, if you took someone at a desk, physical desk and you looked at it and it was a complete mess, but they knew where everything was, I bet that same person as the same person that saves everything to the desktop and they have an idea of where everything is on that computer desktop. But, but they now had the benefit of search. So if they knew enough, if we're thing scenario, worst case scenario here, they can start searching, using the technology to find, uh, to find that document or whatever it app or whatever it was they needed versus just shuffling through papers on their desktop. Correct. That's right.

Speaker 2:
15:29

I'm sure that that's what you would say.

Speaker 1:
15:32

So I'm going to, I'm going to throw this one out here, and most people listen to this podcast are going to understand if you're new or you're probably not gonna understand. But, uh, at some point in all this, uh, Microsoft started seeing where this was, uh, this was an important concept and they created this thing, which for most of us older guys, uh, people of a certain age is what I've been told to call it. Um, they, this thing made us mad. And what it was, was an infusion of internet Explorer onto the desktop. So that things, not only those documents would be there, but real time information from the internet, uh, showed up around 1995, 1996 where we had what was called the, uh, I think it was called the active desktop. You remember that?

Speaker 2:
16:12

I do, absolutely. I can remember when I worked for a software company at the time and, um, I liked to be able to be notified of, of, uh, immediate news. So I installed this little applet that sat on the desktop. Um, whenever there was breaking news it would pop up and tell me. Um, I didn't do it for very long cause it was very distracting. It wasn't really integrated very well, but, um, it was part of that quote unquote active desktop once we had internet in the background. And, you know, I just thought of it out of

Speaker 1:
16:40

maybe the most famous example of that. And that was WeatherBug remember WeatherBug Oh yeah, of course. Yeah. It wasn't, I guess it was a more of a notificate anyway, it was similar, right? It showed up anywhere on your computer anytime it needed to. And, uh, you know, lots of reasons why we had to get rid of that thing. But my point is, it was tried before, uh, very early on. I was at an event last week and someone from Citrix mentioned the, uh, the, the Chrome version of this desktop thing that showed up about around 2010. And that being the precursor, I was like, Oh, no, no, this happened before this. Microsoft tried it. Uh, because they were smart enough to know it was important and necessary. It just, you know, we weren't ready for it. Exactly. So if we, uh, if we fast forward to, uh, well, so let's do this. So if we fast forward a handful of years, we were going to have lots of examples, um, of players trying to accomplish this. And actually after this, you're going to go back and walk us through how Citrix tried to accomplish it. But if we fast forward to the iOS world and learning that we didn't necessarily need what Microsoft had kind of defined as the desktop, we just needed a starting place. Uh, now we get into the world of what, uh, Citrix is trying to take to the next version and a lot of people are, and that is this, um, nonspecific desktop thing that looks similar across the spectrum of devices and operating systems that includes, uh, things we're going to talk about a minute, like a SAS and files and those legacy when 32 apps, even the desktop links or the desktop app, uh, search capabilities, uh, as well as some, uh, interactive nature from all these different apps. And we're going to, we're going to talk through that a little bit, but my whole point to bring that up is the evolution for me goes from that wooden wooden plane with papers laying on it, specifically in certain places to the, uh, the world of a workspace where it has intelligence, it has analytics, it has security analytics built into it, uh, performance analytics. And in theory it's going to help us get more done quicker. I don't know if you've done this recently, but the idea that we're more productive than we used to be. Every once in a while I'll stop and go. That's no way. We're so distracted now. But it didn't. At the same time I sit down to pay my bills. Things that used to pay take three or four hours and I get done in five to 10 minutes. Like, okay, maybe I am a little more productive than I used to be.

Speaker 2:
18:55

Yeah, I think, I think it's, it's really about balance and it's also about how, you know, it's also about how, um, how in front of you these types of things are. And I think, you know, one of the, one of the arguments Citrix is has made for the workspace with intelligence is the concept of context switching, which we know in the, those of us who are the it guys, we know this from a standpoint of the architecture of the Intel processor. But context switching of course applies to humans as well. And you know, they've done studies that say the brain really can't process, um, can't process or are, are or perform two tasks at one time. And I, it's interesting in terms of what you brought up. I had the, I was reading an article last night about, um, the CEO, I think it was a Google about how he does, this is kind of a, kind of a little bit off topic, but kind of related. He does, when he does presentations, he tries to reduce, um, the number of bullet points on his presentations. And I'm sure some of our listeners have heard this before, but essentially the point is that the brain can't, they discovered that when you read text on a PowerPoint slide, you're not listening or when you're listening, you're not reading. So the brain really can't process those things at the same time, even though many of us have been taught to think that we can. So this concept of context switching, the more we do it, the less productive we are. And by, by giving us, uh, alerts and information in small chunks and in a manner that is not as, as obtrusive as it has been, perhaps we can get more done without having to do all that context switching. So, in other words, what I mean is we get a notification for something. We don't have to jump over to another app. What if we could do it in our own app or we could do it within the environment we're working at that moment. Um, would that help? And I think, you know, a lot of studies have shown that yes, that that can help, uh, because we don't have to do a full on shift to another application and a whole nother way of thinking. Uh, and that can help us be more efficient. Uh, even with, uh, the interruptions that we, that we may have to encounter.

Speaker 1:
20:54

That makes sense. Yeah. No, it's funny you brought that up. I took my kids on a college tour Saturday and we walked by the building where I took my public speaking class and that's one of the things I remember to this day from that class was, you know, say more by saying less and only put things on your slides that really need to be a reminders of things to talk about. Don't try to put all the information on the slides and bullets. If you do, it turns into a, into an eye chart. And I think what's interesting about today's world is you can have all that content, um, but the computer, other technologies can help you sift through it quicker. Um, you know, again, we talked about some of my days back in college and the idea that we would sit there for five minutes literally for one page to load on a, uh, on the, on the internet. Uh, my kids thought that was ridiculous and I was like, well, that's how it was. We didn't know any different. Now they, now they have, you know, full blown computers in their hand all the time and the page loads nearly instantly in most cases. If you notice that it even loads, then it's too slow, then it's too slow. Yep. Yep. Okay. So here's, here's what we get into the good part of this. And this is where, uh, bill and I spoke earlier and he's going to walk us through to the best of visibility, the Citrix evolution of trying to try to take the original concept of, um, uh, presentation, screen scrapes of when, 32 apps, including the desktop, somewhere along the way. And they tried to add in some, um, some, some aggregation of, of these apps and other services. And, and Bill's going to try to go through these, I don't know if we'll get all the names correct, but, uh, it'll be, uh, it'd be good history lesson for some of the, some of the Citrix folks out there, especially some of the newer ones.

Speaker 2:
22:34

Yes, absolutely. So when you, when you look at, at the evolution of Citrix, of course, for those of us who've been around a while, I've been working with it since 98. Um, but you know, Citrix as a company, you started in the late eighties, 89 to be specific. And you know, in the early days, I won't go over the multi when and when view. And some of those really, really early products cause I wasn't really around. I don't have any familiarity with them other than what I've read. Uh, but really my experience started with, uh, the, the concept of delivering apps to users and to some degree desktops. But really the initial focus I think was applications. And this was the when frame metal frame days back in the mid nineties, 94 95. And this was uh, the idea that you know, that you have a, a PC and there was this statement made by someone back in that timeframe or prior to the, not mid nineties that we wanted to try to have a PC on every desk in every business. Uh, because that way we, we had the desktop available. The problem was with that was, it was a great theory, but the reality was we have these applications that need to be updated, these applications that need to be delivered to users in order to deliver them. In those old days you had to them locally and the tools just didn't exist for you to do that on a broad scale. So incomes, wind frame and metal frame, um, over the course of the night, mid nineties, uh, to help deliver those applications to those devices in a centralized manner is, some people argued it was a throwback to the mainframe days. It's probably an oversimplification, but conceptually it's similar. Um, so the problem was back in those days, you, you had to have an app on the, on the, um, on the endpoint to access those applications in one frame or metal frame. And that app was called the program neighborhood app. Um, perhaps it was called something prior there prior to that, but, uh, it was, wasn't called the receiver. Uh, it was basically called the Citrix client or the program neighborhood happened. You launched it and you pointed it to your, uh, to your, to your, your data collector or, or your, uh, ICA listener. Uh, and there were some other names for it back in those days. And you got all, you saw all the apps that were published by organization, you can launch them. So they'll broker. Yeah, yeah, they called it something different than, but they basically the same concept. Um, and in the early two thousands, uh, Citrix bought a company called Sequoia. Uh, it was focused on portal technology. And out of that came the infuse, uh, product which morphed into web interface, which then became storefront. Um, and then the workspace with intelligence ultimately. Um, but back in those days, in 2001, 2002, uh, the[inaudible] views, those are the end fuse days or user could access all of their applications. You could even publish web links and content cause we were, the internet was starting to gain some hold back then. Um, and then came metal frame XP and later presentation server, which were evolutions of course, additional functionality, um, more density, uh, support for newer Microsoft operating systems. And then in 2004, uh, they looked back, uh, Citrix looked back to the Sequoia acquisition and determined that they could do some, some other stuff with, uh, with that, with that, uh, technology. And they developed a product called Metta frame, secure access manager. I'm sure some of the, the, uh, the folks on this call might remember him, Sam. It had a relatively short life, but it was essentially a portal, um, that aggregated apps and desktops content. Uh, it was a VPN free, uh, in quotes, a solution that wasn't really VPN for me, but it tunneled through an access gateway, uh, or secure gateway back in those days. And they have these things called content delivery agents or CDAs that you could, you could point to external content sources and get information pulled into the portal. So this was designed to where Citrix was going was with this. They were really frankly a bit ahead of their time, uh, was, was to, to create an aggregation of all of this data into one location, uh, where the users could access to certain content, they can get access to their virtual apps and virtual desktops as well as external content via the CDAs. Um, and you know, around the same time we had these, uh, application service providers, folks that were using Citrix and other technologies to host a customer apps, um, centrally. So kind of like, almost like the early days of software as a service. But, uh, really it was, some folks call it that, but it was really more hosting, uh, and that's still exists today and hosting and managed service providers. Uh, but those markets were both, both MCM from Citrix and the ASP concept. We're kind of ahead of their time because again, we're talking about mid two thousands, 2004, 2005. The internet was still kind of young, um, and they just didn't take off as well. So Citrix basically at that point shifted to the newer architectures of, um, of, uh, application delivery, stuck with women interface for a while, and then of course storefront came along along with the rename. Does that happen? Um, then we have the evolution to the workspace that we have today. So bill, you went through that entire story and you did not say dazzle didn't say dazzle. Gosh, I didn't have dazzle written down. I forgot all about that. That was always the predecessor. Thank you. Andy was a predecessor to storefront. Yeah, Citrix called it dazzle actually had a customer as a hospital customer, um, that our healthcare that, um, that's what they called it. They called the portal. We, when we, when we pitched it to them with, uh, when, when we went in and pitched it to them, we said this is called dazzle. It's a kind of an early name. And so that's what it became. And I actually think that the last time I was in there, which was within the past few months, um, they actually still refer to it as the dazzle portal. So it, uh, obviously that name evolved into the storefront name and the technology kind of became part of the storefront solution. But yeah. Yeah, I left the dazzle out of my, uh, my discussion there. Well, it was just the name for storefront, right. It pretty, that's what it was. Yeah. Yeah. But as you can see, this, you know, having everything was built on the, on the past, everything was built on what they had developed initially, which is the natural evolution of these kinds of things. But I think some of the stuff that w M Sam and dazzle and the ASP concept, uh, they were, they are where we are today because of what was done in the past. But I think they failed, uh, to some extent in the past simply because they were ahead of their time. The market wasn't ready for them. Um, and I know that the, you know, the, the technology, um, applications of delivery spaces littered with, uh, with the names of companies that, that jumped at the ASP market taking this was going to be the, you know, the next big thing. Um, and it didn't happen simply because we didn't have the bandwidth or the ubiquitous bandwidth that we have today that would enable that kind of connectivity. I mean, we were talking about back in those days, um, it was 56 K modems. Right. And, uh, if you were lucky, it might've been 50K modal that connected a t 15 K. yeah, precisely. Precisely. I mean, I remember I worked for, like I said, I worked for a software company w as I was right around a little bit before the two thousands and, u h, they had a T iguan and I thought, O h m y goodness, you know, w e talk about fast.

Speaker 1:
29:55

Yeah, yeah, I remember, um, God. Anyway, the first time I got high speed wireless connected, not wifi but wireless connectivity and a page loaded in about 10 seconds. I thought we had arrived. I thought that was it.

Speaker 2:
30:09

But the point of all that is just to kind of illustrate how we got to where we are. Um, and that there, there were some missteps along the way, but I think those missteps have helped frame where we are now and taking a more methodical approach and a more careful approach to delivering, uh, the, the ultimate workspace with intelligence, uh, in a manner that that allows it to respond as fast as possible to reduce the context switching that I talked about earlier and quite frankly, to provide the most rich, uh, employee experience or end user experience that we can cause at the end of the day, like you and I, Andy, we deal with this all the time that we could build the best environment we think for as, from an engineering perspective. But if the user hates it,

Speaker 1:
30:51

we probably failed. Right? Yeah. You've got to, especially today's user that needs, um, that needs that, uh, that loving touch. The, the, the, the, uh, the newer, the newer end user that we are trying to cater to and make sure that we're helping them get their job done. Uh, you know, to go back to your conversation there, I think the biggest driver for all this is the network speeds that we now have and the, uh, the no doubts, no return, uh, of the SAS true SAS based browser based app that really pulls from HTML based a world, uh, at the pool's HTTP right. Content HD content. Is that true? We're finally here in terms of SAS applications and Citrix is, uh, betting that the future of the workspace is bringing those wind 32 apps forward in a, in a place where SAS apps are treated just as equally.

Speaker 2:
31:49

Absolutely. And, and with the, the requisite security and control that, that it and, and the business needs, uh, for the, for those applications, since many of those are now critical systems of record, uh, for businesses, uh, the SAS applications, I mean, and being able to secure those that controls who has access when and from where, um, is as critical, if not more now than it was in the past.

Speaker 1:
32:15

No, absolutely. Yeah. That, that SAS app becoming the primary default way of delivering an application for most companies, which I think we don't think we're there.

Speaker 2:
32:25

Let me, let me think about us. You know, everything we do is in Salesforce. That's a SAS app, right?

Speaker 1:
32:30

Well, it's in Salesforce. It's in Slack. It's in teams. It's in Podio. It's one drive or Microsoft, uh, office, um, online. We're going to talk about that in a few minutes. Well, I mean, let's, let's talk about it now. I mean, that's, let's jump into the, uh, the blog from Kevin and that's, that's truly finding a way to integrate, um, these apps, um, through this workspace concept, which includes, uh, we'll start old school, right? The wind, 32 apps, getting those Microsoft win 32 apps into a place where they're accessible, uh, and can provide additional content, the the file. So I would never, we never really had a thought to think about files cause those were either on your PC or on the network share somewhere. Now they come from lots of places and we need to be able to get them from lots of places and be authenticated to lots of places without having to sign in 15 different times. Uh, and that information needs to be searchable and discoverable fairly quickly and easily. It does. Um, and you know, as you'll talk about in a minute it goes, you know, obviously it goes beyond that, um, to incorporate SAS apps and authentication mechanisms and all that. So carry on. Yeah. And so you bring in that the, the one we've talked about several times, you lay there that SAS apps, I mean, those SAS apps are they, they're all over the place. They're literally all over the world. They will never be in your data center, never should be in your data center. But yet they've got to look and feel like they're coming from one, uh, one homogenous centralized place where you know, users can get access. My biggest pet peeve of our own it technology is that I have to log in to multiple things every day. So I've gotten 15 passwords. I gotta keep up with, uh, you know, the workspace is going to and does allow us to integrate with a single user, uh, identity. Whether it's coming from a Azure AAD or your own AAD or a Octa or, or, or some of the other pieces all tied together through some type of SAML solution. Uh, it's this, this has to be done. If not, we're going to drive our end users crazy. We onboard new employees as integrity and I started explaining to them how to get into stuff. I'm like, Oh wow. I'm embarrassed. Yeah. I mean, I kind of look at it from try to look at it somewhat through the lens of my, my 12 year old who's got an iPhone and he can get to everything he needs to just by clicking on icon on there. He doesn't have to worry about authenticating separately most of the time. Most of the time it's saved for him and the users that are coming into the workforce, you know, we've been talking about this for years, but the ones that are coming to the workforce now are the days of sitting down and having to have applications installed on a PC. Yes, long gone. They're going to want to be productive from day one or day two at the latest and giving them a workspace where they can authenticate with one identity and access everything they need and that's going to go a long way towards and that employee experience. Well you know it's funny you say that cause you, you, you say it's long gone, but I know you don't mean that it's in theory it should be long gone. But the reality is it's still right here in front of us. And hadn't, hadn't evolved that much since 1995 and we still, we still log into that workspace, but now the workspace, the desktop, and we at some point have to have a better desktop. And that's what we're talking about here. That's what we're talking about. We still going to have an endpoint, a physical device of some sort, but, um, but you know what, what you see

Speaker 2:
35:38

from that device is going to change. Um, and it's going to be better. Yeah. Somebody posted a via Docker, uh, and IGEL endpoint, I saw that where they were using, you know, windows apps via container solutions and, and, and the funny thing about that is Microsoft used to, would have got on stage and yelled at that was dumb and don't do that. Now they embrace it because they know the future of this is consumption of things, uh, including Microsoft related things. And there was no stopping it. It's going to be a ubiquitous world. Yes. Um, okay, so one that we haven't brought up here, and I'm looking at the, uh, the blog here and that's mobile apps. And I, I personally, I'm still not sure how mobile apps fit into the workspace. Maybe you can explain it to me, but I do think there's a, an element of mobile apps that get used in all of this. I just don't know how they actually show up in the, uh, in the workspace concept. I think ultimately, you know, this is, this is about in, in, um, incorporating, uh, endpoint management capabilities within the workspace so that, you know, when, uh, when, uh, on end user launches the worst space with intelligence from a, a mobile device, perhaps they'll see the mobile versions of the apps or they'll, they'll be able to install the mobile versions of the apps directly from their, from their device. Um, or perhaps at some point, I know there's been a lot of talk about refactoring. Uh, although I don't know personally, I don't know that that's going to be the solution. I think really what, what, uh, what the solution is going to be is relative to mobile apps is encouraging or suggesting kind of through that AI, Hey, if you need to access Workday or you need to access concur on your, on your iPhone, you don't get better experience if you install the app, I want you to install the app. We can bring it in to a manage scenario in some way using endpoint management, um, to help you help with the updates and those sorts of things. But, uh, you know, I know that I'm launching, uh, certain applications on, on a, on a mobile device, uh, without having to, without having the actual application installed. The experience is much different. So by enabling the end user to go get that app, if they don't already have it or push it to them, then that's going to help the experience for, particularly for, you know, SAS based apps that have that kind of functionality. Yeah. You know, we've gone this foreign to the, um, into the podcast here and we haven't really talked about this. So one way to access the workspace is through a browser, right? Any browser you want QML five capable browser is going to work. Uh, at the same time you can install an app, whether it's, uh, a wind 32 app, uh, whether it's, uh, the, uh, workspace app for Mac or Android or iOS. I mean, we talked a while ago you thought about solving the need to get to a bunch of apps by installing an app program, neighborhood. Um, you know, that hasn't changed. We, Citrix knows that in order to do this going forward, it's going to have to be browser based and at the same time it's going to have to be, um, you know, app based and both places take you to something that looks and feels the same. Yes, absolutely. Yep.

Speaker 1:
38:36

All right. Just a quick time check here. We've got about 15 more minutes and I don't want to run too, too long with this. And unfortunately for me, and you probably too, we've got another, another meeting I've got to jump on. But I think we're this, I think this is great and I hope, uh, I hope people are enjoying this and getting some, getting some perspective of at least our thoughts on the workspace. So, uh, next, next topic that Kevin has has here is taking this concept of aggregating all this stuff and then adding intelligence and, and we've talked about that a bunch of years. Citrix acquired, Oh, I guess it's two years ago now. You keep me, keep me straight on that. But they include Sappho, SAP, Aho and WhatsApp. Oh, did or does. Uh, it takes, um, the micro app services and ties it into, um, the services, the API APIs that are available from SAS offerings, whether they're internet base, public facing or whether they're internal. If your apps have that, if your apps don't have that, then somebody likes integrity's gonna need to come in and, and help you to design the internal service. It can be tied in through micro apps and extended. But the main idea here is that these apps that are on this workspace now have some way of going and getting data and bringing it to you and telling you what you need to do next and making sure you're not missing, um, uh, an expense report that needs to go in or needs to be approved or a, uh, a PTO request by someone or, or maybe it's a, you know, maybe it's something as simple as an email or some type of Slack message that needs to be responded to. But that's where the Sacco thing ties in. Do you want to can add a little more color to there? Yeah, I think, I think that you hit most of it right there on the head there. But I think, you know,

Speaker 2:
40:10

Sappho is about, um, again, the micro apps tying into the back end. And this kind of goes back again to what I was talking about in terms of context switching by enabling the, the micro apps within the workspace with intelligence, by adding that intelligence element via the micro apps, which is part of it. Um, we're, we're able to hit those simple quick things like Spence reports or PTO requests or other requests that might come through, um, the application. So I know, you know, when, when one of members of my team requests PTO, I typically get an email telling me that they've requested PTO. Well, with the intelligent workspace, I can get just a, a, a feed, kind of like a Twitter feed almost that says, Hey, um, so and so has requested PTO and I can click on that. Yes. And my context switching, yes. But I didn't have to go out and open the application that they were, that they had entered that into, go into the appropriate place in that application, find their entry and then approve it. I can approve it right there on the screen that I'm working on and immediately switch back to what I was doing. Uh, so we're on process that might take 30 seconds or 45 seconds in several layers to get there. I can do that in less than five seconds.

Speaker 1:
41:19

And that's good. And you know, what if it did, but what if it couldn't take you exactly to what you needed to prove it could at least take you to, um, uh, the, the close enough, right to get you into SAP, gets you into concur, but, uh, it doesn't have to take you all the way, all the way as the ideal. That's the Nirvana, uh, but just in one place to start that allows you to go from there without having to reauthenticate get to what you need, get that taken care of or better yet, take you all the way to the finish line and allow you to approve it and move on. But that's where the intelligence is going to have to be managed. And someone's going to have to decide what to allow, um, to, to notify you and, and interact with you versus, um, you know, just getting you

Speaker 2:
41:59

to what's trying to let you know something's going on. Yeah. Well, you know, I don't have any personal knowledge of futures, but it was seeing the meeting and the natural evolution of something like this would be initially, you know, present the user with, with these, these micro app notifications, uh, you know, these, these, this feed that says, okay, you've got this PTO to address or this one to address or what have you. Um, and over time, you know, of course, well initially the user can elect, you know, which ones they want to receive, which ones they don't. But I think over time what we'll probably see, and again, I have no inside knowledge of this, uh, is it will probably start deciding based on your behavior, at least to some extent, uh, if you're ignoring the same basic notification, you know, every day, multiple times a day, then that's probably the one that we need to reduce showing you, uh, unless you opt out of that feature. Uh, so I think, you know, ultimately we'll see some level of, of, uh, intelligence in the workspace beyond what's going to be in there initially that will, Oh, conformed to our behavior.

Speaker 1:
43:00

Well, I think part of the key there is the user still gonna have to do something, right. There's still going to have to indicate yes, this is content. I like, yes. Uh, I want to keep getting more of this. No, I don't want this one. I don't want this one as much. I mean the idea that it's going to just totally learn our behavior without us behaving the way we mean to behave is that was quite a mouthful, but I think that's, that's inevitable. That has to happen. Um, regarding the, uh, the micro web service, right? So the Citrix is going to have some, some things that'll plug in right away and you can just as a, from a gooey, you're going to be able to, as the admin go and configure what, what can be active and what can, and then there's going to be development needs either from the, uh, the micro app service perspective or from the back end, right? The system of record. It's going to have to be evolved. If it, if it has a rest API APIs and great, if it doesn't, then someone's gonna have to ride it. But it's a huge opportunity to, it's a huge bet by Citrix that this is what's coming. But at the same time, it's a huge opportunity to get smart about the way we work. And then, like we said a while ago, the future workers of America or, or the world, uh, they're gonna want a little bit of this cause they're going to get it everywhere else. They, they interact. That's all right.

Speaker 2:
44:02

Yeah. And, and like you said, Andy, they, they're, there are certain, uh, systems of record that are, that for which they are apps already built. So it would be a pretty simple onboarding for those that don't have those, some of those, like the major ones, Salesforce, Workday, there's a whole bunch of them. You can, you can see some of them in the, in Kevin's blog, uh, but obviously to, to conform these. If you have custom developed apps, you have your own dev ops team, a dev ops culture, uh, then then Citrix will have a whole framework for building these apps either by writing code or by using an app builder or something along those lines. We'll enable the, uh, the, the end user or the customer to integrate their custom apps with the, the micro apps architecture in the workspace.

Speaker 1:
44:47

So we have two more topics to hit. One is a one that we struggle with as Integra all the time and that is more and more SAS services showing up every day we get, we get one service with the idea that's the one that's going to end all the other ones. But the truth is it just adds to the stack. And what Citrix is really doing here is they're not trying to replace teams. They're not trying to replace Slack. They're not trying to replace SAP. They're giving you a place where you can go and get to those things efficiently. And that's the real message here is that a Citrix isn't trying to be the one end all be all workspace, like some of the other players are. It's trying to be the one, uh, that's kinda like a, I'm going to use this example like Switzerland, like kind of gets along with everybody and let's get along with everybody and let's just help everybody we can, uh, by using technology to do so.

Speaker 2:
45:27

Yes. And, and in the process help the customer, um, and the experience for the end user. Absolutely. Yeah.

Speaker 1:
45:34

So the next section here, which is really important, probably maybe the most important part, and that's the upside of this from an it perspective, because we have that single place where everything is being accessed from and coming through. We now can look at the analytics of that data, right? It's still ones and zeros. We can look at that and we can do two things with it. At least one of those is performance, right? We never really knew how that user experience looked when they were accessing Salesforce or any other SAS app, especially those internal homegrown apps that were um, you know, never intended to have analytics. We can now do that because at the network the network doesn't lie, right? I mean I've been working in it support for 20 plus years now and at the end of the day when you couldn't figure something out, you go, went and did a Wireshark trace out what was really happening. Cause you could kind of insert yourself in the conversation and see what was going on back and forth. So you know, from a, from a performance perspective, you're going to get that. And then maybe most importantly these days is security, right? Having, um, I ride the subway in New York a lot and they've got these signs all over the place. It, you know, they talk about the security guard, they talk about metal detectors talking about that kind of stuff. But the reality is me sitting there looking at all the other people is probably the best security you can have. And that's what we're really, the security analytics that having the single access points, uh, it's going to bring to the equation.

Speaker 2:
46:49

Yeah. But it's all about visibility. Um, and the more granular the better, but, but aggregating that in a way and presenting it in a way that makes it easy to consume. Um, you know, yeah, we could do a Wireshark trace, but the, the wire sharp trace would tell us a lot, but it was also pretty cryptic, um, and difficult to understand and difficult to correlate using some of the analytics that are built behind the, the workspace with intelligence and some of the other, other, uh, software. That's that Citrix is, um, put in the cloud. Uh, we have that kind of visibility, but we can, if we want to get into the ones and zeros, like you said, Andy, we can. But more often than not, we just want to see what's broken and what's, what might be functioning. And if we can look at charts and graphs and see that you can narrow our focus and help us get to the end result quicker. But I'm glad you said the word cloud because that reminds me to kind of tell people this is all based on technology. Citrix has been putting together for all these years around NetScaler and NetFlow and uh, everything back to you know, metal frame and wind frame. But the reality of the, uh, the, the workspace is that we have to type this thing through Citrix in a cloud so that we can get the insights. Now I think there's on-prim pieces that can feed up to the cloud. But the whole point is this is this, is that cloud, this hybrid world, uh, on prem and cloud coming together to provide a solution that makes sense for everyone, uh, to be able to see this, uh, kind of come to fruition for everything. Yeah. And I, and it's a natural extension of, like we said before of the apps and desktop worlds that Citrix lives in, but it doesn't, it can operate independent of that. And what I mean is, to be clear, you know, this, this concept isn't workspace with intelligence. While it definitely can consume and apply to those customers that are here, that are working with the legacy products at certain apps or desktops, Eve ad, Citrix, virtual apps and desktops service and so forth. I can also work and provide the benefits that we've talked about for customers that perhaps don't have that. Um, so they can still get the aggregation of SAS apps. I can get the analytics relative to those assets. They can get files, uh, they can, they can get the micro apps, architecture. All of those things come, uh, are available to customers who may have not bought into the virtual apps and desktop story. So this is a solution that goes beyond perhaps a, I don't know, Andy, if you want to comment on this or not, but it goes beyond what Citrix has traditionally been focused on. Well, it actually says this, I mean, apps used to be one thing they used to be when 32. Now there are lots of things including SAS app. So Citrix is, you know, it's all about the app. And if you're a Citrix guy, you've been able to say that for a couple of decades now. The difference is the app became something else while we were doing that. And now this is the evolution of being all about the app, right? Yeah. All right, bill. Well, let's, uh, let's wrap it up with that. I think that was an awesome take on this blog. And again, if you wanna check it out, uh, you can look at the blogs by at on the Citrix website. Uh, this again, it was written by Kevin binder, uh, Citrix workspace. Tune in for a great workspace experience. Uh, I'm sure Google will help you find that if you want to find the actual blog. But bill, thanks for the time. Yeah, thank you, Andy. Good stuff. Talk to you next week. All right, thank you. Bye. Sorry.