112: The Citrix Session: DaaS or VDI: Which is best for your organization?

Aug 9, 2022

(DaaS) and virtual desktop infrastructure (VDI). There’s a lot to consider, and Citrix gives you flexible options to let you take advantage of the strengths of both.

DaaS and VDI both provide users access to virtual desktops and applications and can free up valuable time and resources for IT teams. So, how do you choose what’s best for you? Running DaaS or VDI depends entirely on your business needs, with various factors such as cost, security, and management to consider. Are you hoping to realize cost savings over time or right away? Do you want your IT to shift their focus away from managing apps and desktops, or do you need greater control? Do you have seasonal employees, or have you recently gone through a merger or acquisition and need to scale up quickly?

As a leading DaaS and VDI provider, Citrix can deliver the technologies you need to meet the unique needs of your organization and workforce, helping you move beyond traditional desktop management.

Host: Andy Whiteside
Co-host: Todd Smith
Co-host: Geremy Meyers
Co-host: Patrick Coble

WEBVTT

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Andy Whiteside: hello, and welcome to episode 112 of the citrix session i’m your host Andy whiteside i’m an.

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Andy Whiteside: onsite at the airport, I think I had a guy next to me just no joke into his friend on the phone about living at the Charlotte airport time.

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Andy Whiteside: and say that because usually I fly out at 6am so there’s no time to have time to waste grab a coffee and go but.

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Andy Whiteside: This week, next week and the following week i’ll be hanging out here for the afternoon and try to catch a flight out West so.

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Andy Whiteside: going to get plenty of time to get stuff done at the airport with us, we have a couple of our normal host co host got Todd Smith from citrix Todd is now the director of sales engineers for Canada Todd how’s it going.

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Todd Smith – Citrix: Very good Andy I share your.

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Todd Smith – Citrix: Your travel close.

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Todd Smith – Citrix: To me, was coming back from Columbus Ohio last Friday and it probably could have walked back to Boston faster than I was able to get there and.

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Todd Smith – Citrix: Had the infamous luggage didn’t show up until late Saturday night from a Friday morning flight so yeah it, you know, for those of us who are wishing to get back on the road.

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Todd Smith – Citrix: we’re living living the dream, right now, so can’t wait to start traveling up to you again like we talked about last week.

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Andy Whiteside: I was just holding up one of my bottomless Patagonia bags, which I somehow managed to get four or five days worth of clothes in every time.

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Andy Whiteside: Central man I can’t imagine checking luggage at this point yeah.

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Andy Whiteside: But we also have JEREMY monitors as JEREMY is the director of sales you doing for the East coast now JEREMY what the official two weeks, three weeks.

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Geremy Meyers: Two weeks ish yeah yeah for sure you know what maybe we do this one together next week i’ll be in the airport actually in the airport in a couple hours but also be the airport.

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Geremy Meyers: Making a very strange flight to raleigh from Charlotte which is you know, is an entire I think it’s a seven minute flight but it’s only because my my next leg will be down the fort lauderdale and the only way to make it work.

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Geremy Meyers: Because I got to stick my truck somewhere is to flatter raleigh from Charlotte So there you go.

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Andy Whiteside: I can, I can relate I think i’m driven to raleigh phone back to Charlotte had to get to raleigh to get my car and drive it back somewhere it’s.

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Geremy Meyers: Just I saw myself a scenario where I would land somewhere ago where the heck is my vehicle it’s not on the fourth floor of the deck it’s in a different city that would.

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Andy Whiteside: Be oh that’s interesting you where do you where do you park your car I parked on the fourth floor of the daily deck in the same area every time period.

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Geremy Meyers: I park on the fourth floor of the daily deck every time in the same spot period.

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Geremy Meyers: It depends on that well, let me, let me say this right, so I try to be a good steward and i’ve noticed the prices in the deck have gone up so i’ve started go I used to be the hourly deck now move the daily deck and it just depends on when you show.

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Geremy Meyers: up, so my last two or three times out who have been on the roof, because people are flying again.

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Andy Whiteside: A lot yeah.

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Geremy Meyers: And the day.

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Geremy Meyers: Before yeah.

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Todd Smith – Citrix: But i’ve.

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Andy Whiteside: gotten used to my truck.

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Andy Whiteside: But I thought.

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Todd Smith – Citrix: I was gonna say i’ve gotten you back in the habit of dropping a pin on where I parked the car and also taking photographs of the the actual room numbers.

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Todd Smith – Citrix: You know where where i’m staying at hotels and things like that, so no that’s a sign of age or sign and we’re getting back to somewhat normal travel schedules.

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Geremy Meyers: we’ve never we’ve never sounded more old in our lifetime.

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Todd Smith – Citrix: Exactly exactly well.

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Andy Whiteside: it’s also a fun how much you drink.

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that’s fair.

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Geremy Meyers: that’s fair.

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Andy Whiteside: Well guys, we are fortunate to have with us a citrix legend Patrick coble at nashville Tennessee Patrick is the leader of the nashville or one of the leaders of the national nashville.

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Andy Whiteside: citrix user group community and and a huge contributor to the citrix Community just in general for as long as i’ve known him Patrick how’s it going.

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Patrick Coble: doing good doing good i’m a i’m a little tired, I did 25 miles of kayaking with my son with the scouts this weekend so.

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Geremy Meyers: I guess that’s awesome.

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Patrick Coble: So it was super fun, it was hot and i’ll probably get caught up on sleep in a day or two.

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Andy Whiteside: yeah that sounds like a lot of fun with it like rapids are just flat water.

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Patrick Coble: Just a little baby things every they’re the best part was is, we decided to.

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Patrick Coble: You know crash land at like a sandbar so that we could all have lunch together and we picked the best sandbar to go to because it was 100% entertainment because.

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Patrick Coble: There was a nice shallow section, but on the left hand side of that bank, it was it was it was gusher rapid with a tree stump that and fallen down.

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Patrick Coble: So people were crashing left and right canoes and the canoes so it was it was entertaining I saved two Dudes phone in a ziploc bag.

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Patrick Coble: Because he dipped it after a canoe random TIM and I jumped in and save this little ziploc bag that was floating with this phone and I was like you know, I guess, I did my good deed for the day you know.

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Andy Whiteside: And then you have to do as a parent or a scout leader.

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Patrick Coble: yep.

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Andy Whiteside: It never in.

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Geremy Meyers: master.

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Geremy Meyers: But I would say, where we have Patrick on the Cumberland are you somewhere else, a little bit about.

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Patrick Coble: The buffalo river so out out basically West from here about an hour and some change so not really a ton of rapids, but it was good in the shade was key and those hot days.

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Geremy Meyers: Okay, and fantastic.

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Andy Whiteside: Well guys let’s let’s jump into this, I know we can chit chat forever and it would be great really but the topic we chose it for today, the blog from the citrix blog site isn’t DAS da so.

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Andy Whiteside: i’ll never forget the first time I said SAS in front of Jeremy and we were confused each other, we didn’t have written about SAS software company based out of raleigh or SAS.

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Andy Whiteside: Software as a service topic and in following on the same page about five minutes into the conversation here, you probably don’t remember that I remember.

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Geremy Meyers: When I was a customer I had for for a couple of minutes there right so that was very confusing for sure I do remember that.

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Geremy Meyers: Oh, did we lose any Amazon views he’s muted himself.

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Andy Whiteside: Sorry, I got my zoom had a hiccup and then it came back sorry about that i’m recording this to the web So hopefully hopefully i’m at the airport, you know American Airlines blown swipe I will see if the cloud statements or not, I think it will been been good to me.

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Andy Whiteside: really good really that’s cloud and that’s a great example of how the cloud can be a savior you know back in the day that would have been that would have been the end of our podcast what just happened.

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Andy Whiteside: So topic today is from one of the citrix employees heather tat and I think from the consulting side you guys don’t have to you know differently, but the topic is data EAS.

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Andy Whiteside: or vdi which is best for your organization which I think is extremely interesting wrapped it all kinds of companies were part of we joined the digital.

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Andy Whiteside: Digital workspace ecosystem alliance today, so that we could kind of help educate people on what’s what in this space.

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Andy Whiteside: The integrity did.

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Andy Whiteside: We we we really have a goal to help customers get educated on what’s what one is versus the other.

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Andy Whiteside: And then, what they mean to you, Mr customer I think i’d love for Todd to kind of explain the topic why it’s important and also maybe layer in.

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Andy Whiteside: citrix changing the name of your as a service offerings to be data all encompassing versus the the legacy and then.

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Andy Whiteside: Virtual APP and have that commitment desktop virtual APP and desktop service offering excuse me virtual APP and desktop versus virtual APP and desktop service.

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Andy Whiteside: Virtual APP and desktop services now all things, including data, including what I would call death before that Todd, why is this topic so being so confused.

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Todd Smith – Citrix: So Andy you just confuse even myself on the on on your explanation on on all of the different historic names that we’ve had.

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Todd Smith – Citrix: For vdi or virtual Apps in virtual desktops right So if I if I go back and look at.

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Todd Smith – Citrix: You know, when we first had Zen APP and Zen desktop it was pretty prevalent as to what we’re talking about we’re talking about application virtualization desktop virtualization.

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Todd Smith – Citrix: Then we came out with citrix virtual Apps and desktops which kind of combined.

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Todd Smith – Citrix: Some of the licensing, as well as some of the capabilities and then, as we introduce citrix virtual Apps and desktop service that was our first real foray into hosting the infrastructure up in the cloud.

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Todd Smith – Citrix: leveraging that control plane so delivering the traditional virtual Apps virtual desktops leveraging a cloud based management infrastructure.

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Todd Smith – Citrix: And then you know gartner kind of threw us a little bit of a curveball and they came out with daz as a definition of the marketplace right So if you look at.

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Todd Smith – Citrix: desktop as a service, it includes traditional vdi it can you know it also includes the managed service component of delivering a virtual APP or a virtual desktop.

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Todd Smith – Citrix: In there’s couple of flavors of that piece of it right, it can be delivered completely as a turnkey service like we have now.

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Todd Smith – Citrix: Or it can be something that a partner or a customer chooses to leverage kind of at the same time, the challenge here is that the the daz component, the dad’s name has kind of encompassed everything right so for customers who have vdi but you know, on on Prem vdi solution.

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Todd Smith – Citrix: You know that falls under death for customers who are using a true desktop as a service like citrix managed desktops or.

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Todd Smith – Citrix: Some other branded offering that any of our partners have that are that are specific to them being able to to include that under the dads title as well.

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Todd Smith – Citrix: But really what it comes down to is the ability to get pretty much anything you need that includes applications desktop operating systems we’ve talked in the past about you know desktop operating system is really a giant APP.

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Todd Smith – Citrix: and connecting it in with your data as well as all of the other services that kind of encompasses all of those components into one one kind of definition so daz is where we’re at with that.

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Geremy Meyers: So real quick I know Andy if you let him will go off on the definition of vdi in the first place, so this is something that we’ve debated ever.

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Geremy Meyers: You know, for years, right so vdi or server based computing like all those kinds of things, but.

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Geremy Meyers: When I think Todd what you’re trying to say is that, historically, there was kind of two different there’s like a fork in the road either vdi which was something that you as a customer completely.

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Geremy Meyers: owned and managed and dad was always like something that was completely owned and managed from a like a vendor perspective and I don’t mean just.

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Geremy Meyers: As we know it today, you know there’s several different iterations but desktops management, the whole nine yards, was it was almost like Amazon workspaces versus you hosting all of this yourself.

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Geremy Meyers: And I guess where we’ve landed is it’s actually a little bit of a spectrum right, so there is a vdi and that’s typically an on premise type solution.

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Geremy Meyers: or something that you completely host and manage in a cloud right there’s nothing stopping you from standing up an entire infrastructure vdi but in say aws.

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Geremy Meyers: But now we’ve got a daz but sort of a hybrid kind of solution and and I think that’s what gartner felt like they needed to go through and define right there is a.

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Geremy Meyers: There is a model of dads which is put a quarter in and get a desktop right and that hosts that that hyper scale or will completely host and manage the entire stack or.

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Geremy Meyers: And this is where citrix sets where you know, a piece of that is managed by citrix and then it’s kind of up to you to decide where those workloads need to live.

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Geremy Meyers: And I think that’s where we’ve seen most of our customers land is it’s definitely a mixture of offload which you can put then manage.

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Geremy Meyers: You where you need to more importantly, where you need to where you need to manage and that could be you know I think this is what this article gets into.

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Geremy Meyers: based on cost based on security based on you know any number of non technical regulation, you know I think this is where the solution sets.

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Andy Whiteside: So, Patrick as a.

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Andy Whiteside: player in the system, do you do, do you feel like gardener in the major vendors like citrix that are going this route, where it’s coming as a service that could be considered as whether it’s Apps or.

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Andy Whiteside: Secure Apps or vdi or server desktops do you think that’s helping with the confusion or making it worse.

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Patrick Coble: I think it’s a little bit of both because I think we’ve all kind of hit on it is vdi was like that term that kind of glued all the things going like remote delivery of application.

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Patrick Coble: And then the term workspace was dovetailed into that to have SAS Apps and other things, and now daz is just.

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Patrick Coble: Another thing that we’ve been talking about I guess for probably 10 plus years but it’s always been hosted by someone or something else, and now it’s being hosted by.

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Patrick Coble: The citrix the vm where’s the microsoft’s the in now even like a new tonics and other players out there that are either doing the brokering.

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Patrick Coble: Or the brokering, plus the hosting and so i’ve seen a lot of growth in it, it reminds me of kind of the 2008 to 2000 probably 11 like vdi trade up days of the citrix world where everybody is doing something two for one special this and that.

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Patrick Coble: But in my opinion, for what i’ve seen it’s like it’s really hard for every depending on where you’re at and financially, to be able to pay X about per user per month per machine.

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Patrick Coble: And that financial differences massive when you compare to that traditional on site deployment in some data Center anywhere that you control for the past 30 years so that’s kind of the big one for me, but yeah the confusion is is abundance everywhere on it.

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Andy Whiteside: So, Patrick is it, are you most disappointed, because the year of vdi that we kept saying what’s coming next year is never going to happen because we’re moving the term to death.

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Patrick Coble: that’s correct yeah it’ll it’ll.

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Patrick Coble: it’ll it’ll never happen in that sense, but I think one thing that is still been impressive to me is that it’s still.

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Patrick Coble: The market itself still still seems like it’s growing.

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Patrick Coble: And I thought that it would slow down and then especially post coven I thought everybody is probably bought all the things that are going to buy for the work to support the work from home users, but it still just keeps coming the hits keep coming so it’s.

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Patrick Coble: In the development to from citrix vmware.

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Patrick Coble: And then Microsoft to I mean it’s it’s those big three in that in that space, in my opinion, are really kind of driving the driving force of what gartner is going to call DAS or any other place.

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Andy Whiteside: yeah I think there’s a huge opportunity for folks like Patrick and i’d even folks from the citrix seem to.

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Andy Whiteside: Just really go help educate customers on what is vdi versus data and how vdi became Dev and some cases and.

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Andy Whiteside: really help customers start to see what the field looks like and where the finish line for them, or at least closer to the finish line might might look like let’s let’s break it down into what heather brought up here let’s hear you want to take the cost savings conversation for us.

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Geremy Meyers: yeah so.

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Geremy Meyers: I mean there’s a couple of pieces here that it touches on what is the pay per user subscription model which is certainly a thing right.

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Geremy Meyers: and obviously that depends on what data model we’re talking about here, but.

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Geremy Meyers: You know a lot of cases, you know the citrix model looks like this, there is a management plane that citrix host right and it’s responsible for the brokering as possible before a lot of the features right because those are defined.

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Geremy Meyers: In a lot of cases on the back end but, and this is one of the first conversations we have with customers, when we talk about this is, you know the desktops the virtual desktops the virtual Apps you know those are going to sit in a data Center.

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Geremy Meyers: That makes the most sense, a lot of case what’s driving that data Center is the cost right, you know what sort of deal do I get with Microsoft in terms of spin you know, maybe.

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Geremy Meyers: Maybe i’ve got some technical debt that i’ve got a you know that came right off the books, yet, and so I need to put some of these desktops on Prem.

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Geremy Meyers: You know so there’s an opportunity to literally you know, have the brains, you know, basically, the management piece sitting in one location in.

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Geremy Meyers: You can sort of manage costs by putting those desktops wherever they need to sit that makes the most sense from a cost perspective now that’s not the only.

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Geremy Meyers: Variable that you need to consider, but this is clearly one of the biggest ones that customers are are considering, and you know, honestly, one of the biggest use cases there’s the are.

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Geremy Meyers: Right so in the case in the past, you know I might have to stand up an entire second data Center to support you know, Dr motion.

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Geremy Meyers: Now I can do it, you know, on demand in the cloud and have a mixture of like something on Prem as well as something in a hyper scale or just to support you know that scenario, but do it at a smaller price point than what I might have had to do 10 years ago.

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Andy Whiteside: I had to come off mute um any other thoughts on the cost savings piece of news as JEREMY pointed out and as we all know, you know, a server hosted desktop that you invest in and provide to yourself versus a.

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Andy Whiteside: True desktop as a service service it’s all inclusive from, say, a weak spot or a citrix or Microsoft.

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Andy Whiteside: Obviously cost.

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Andy Whiteside: cost is going to be where it’s going to be and how do you make sure you get the most value for that spin.

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Todd Smith – Citrix: It and I think I think if I look at the end when you when you talk about you know the overall cost.

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Todd Smith – Citrix: oftentimes you know architects and data Center architects and folks over scaling out building out these environments.

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Todd Smith – Citrix: You know they never wanted to have a user and said hey I don’t have a resource available to me, so you know we were trained back in the early days of doing an n plus one.

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Todd Smith – Citrix: Architecture model so that will never be without capacity or capabilities, the problem is, is that you know, in a data model in a service model.

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Todd Smith – Citrix: You know you’re paying for those things to always be available right so so it really doesn’t make a lot of sense and that’s where you know as JEREMY was talking about the you know the scalability or the dvr capabilities you can’t really talk about cost savings without talking about.

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Todd Smith – Citrix: How do I manage scalability and I know that’s the next that that’s kind of next bullet item on this on this blog, but it really comes down to you know how much, are you really going to need and how do you expand it and not only expand it but be able to contract it as well right so.

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Todd Smith – Citrix: You know, whether it be a you know if you’re in retail right, you have a busy season, where you’re ramping up and adding additional.

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Todd Smith – Citrix: Employees to your to your stores, or if you’re in health care, you need to add additional resources based on things like the pandemic, or if you’re.

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Todd Smith – Citrix: You know you’re in financial services and you’re now seeing a large number of interns coming in, for the summer, those are all those are you don’t plan, those for the entire year you plan those on having the ability to scale out and then scale back when you need is no longer there.

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Todd Smith – Citrix: that’s always been a challenge with some of the vdi infrastructures is how do you build it out, so you meet the maximum number of the maximum capacity that’s needed at that time and not have to worry about going out and contracting additional resources.

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Todd Smith – Citrix: To meet those needs.

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Andy Whiteside: And so Todd you kind of blended into the scalability conversation and then really take on two tasks right one is the infrastructure that’s Well, first of all it’s having a technology in place that can scale in terms of the.

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Andy Whiteside: The the platform that’s managing the whole thing which we’ll talk about in a minute, but also the scalability of the infrastructure, as well as the scalability of the resources that are still needed to manage it and.

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Andy Whiteside: You know who’s going to take on what how you make that scale up and scale down scenario or.

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Andy Whiteside: Some let’s go on to the next few in JEREMY today’s any specifics around call failures scalability that you kind of want to add before we move into.

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Andy Whiteside: And i’m going to call security and then we’re going to come back to management’s and ask Patrick to kind of tie in both because.

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Andy Whiteside: As was discussed on my team call this morning it assume and management and change control all that is important but security is what comes out of that if you do it right, but scalability and cost any other topic cushions comments on that, including Patrick.

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Geremy Meyers: You know what honestly I would say what’s driven a lot of scalability requirement recently just been supply chain, so, even if you want to do stuff on Prem you know right now it’s tough to get.

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Geremy Meyers: hardware on Prem, so I think that’s force the hand of certain customers leave had to maybe look at the cloud they hadn’t considered that in the past and.

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Geremy Meyers: You know the fact that you’ve got a you know, like a data management plane that could sit you anywhere it’s been easy right so.

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Geremy Meyers: You know there’s always been some some some typical use cases so m&a always the biggest one seasonal workers, always the biggest one, but you know just you know very.

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Geremy Meyers: Practically just supply chains come become a big issue in the last two years and has driven a lot of scalability concerns for sure.

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Andy Whiteside: i’m gonna use your comment on the cloud just now to point out the Andy ISM which is it’s the cloud right and sometimes and sometimes that might be, you know is integrity.

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Andy Whiteside: Infrastructure, they can host desktops it might be economics, that the host infrastructure, it might be Microsoft azure might be tcp might be aws and it might be many, many other options around clouds.

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Andy Whiteside: But having the platform that citrix has, which has the ability to bring in all of the above, simultaneously, is just a huge asset, I was in a conversation this morning with a customer company a vendor that only does.

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Andy Whiteside: aws tcp and azure and they it was kind of a kind of a conversation around Okay, what about private clouds and I said, well, we might do that someday and i’m like well that’s a massive limitations right there across.

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Geremy Meyers: yeah.

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Geremy Meyers: yeah for sure.

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Andy Whiteside: cool so let’s uh let’s bring Patrick and your Patrick it’s interesting and I don’t know if that was on purpose or not, but the security topic is the last of all, the topics and My guess is, if you started with security, probably end up on all the other topics along the way.

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Andy Whiteside: Patrick who his company DNS SEC does a lot of there’s a lot of security audits of vdi and I guess now will say Dev environments for his integrity as a partner relationship, the bars that are going to cover the data versus vdi conversation as it relates to security.

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Patrick Coble: yeah yeah I think the thing I like the most about dads when it comes to security is in most cases, you are able to have more security features out of the box, as in you’re entitled to at protection and security analytics if we’re talking about citrix and even from.

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Patrick Coble: aws from vmware not so much Microsoft but there’s a lot of features that are bundled into your dad’s subscription.

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Patrick Coble: That might not be currently bundled in whatever your entitlement level is for your on Prem one, so you can gain some security features that are a little more fancy and cool which I, of course, I like that.

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Patrick Coble: Since that’s what I focus on is vdi security, but then you know going to anything cloud you still have to be very mindful of your tenant.

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Patrick Coble: Who controls it the keys of the Kingdom if you’re developing Apps and things like that it’s it’s one click away for a public read both from a private repo.

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Patrick Coble: Along with if you just go next next next in azure or aws or pretty much any cloud provider, depending on how about what level of control you’re getting.

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Patrick Coble: You could have your dangly bits hanging out in the Internet and, so now it has a public IP whereas before that citrix server that RDS server.

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Patrick Coble: would not be hanging out on the Internet, where anyone in the world could contact, so you really have to pay attention to security when you go to any data platform or going to any cloud to migrate any of your workloads and it’s a very common oversight that I see all the time and.

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Patrick Coble: You know one thing that we are at that I was going to add to on the scalability front and i’ve been a part of a.

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Patrick Coble: Large organizations doing.

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Patrick Coble: migrations and upgrades into the cloud and, depending on what data Center is there it’s not all you can eat Buffet.

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Patrick Coble: i’ve seen many common vm types run out of allocation in certain data centers across the world from Amazon and from azure and so.

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Patrick Coble: I think we’re starting to you know because it seemed like the cloud is all the awesome and it is, but there are starting to be real limits met with certain vm types.

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Patrick Coble: The but i’m still blown away with how fast network connections are between the regions into the gigabits and terabytes.

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Patrick Coble: it’s just insane that I can have a virtual desktop in London and be using my hillbilly Internet where i’m at in Tennessee.

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Patrick Coble: And it’s like good move that same desktop to India and it’s still just as good with just a little bit more hiccups and it kind of blows me away.

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Patrick Coble: But yeah the security features are a little more bundled and some of the dads things, but you have to pay attention to what you’re doing with your cloud, because otherwise it won’t mean anything.

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Geremy Meyers: Patrick I got so many there’s so many things that just popped in my head, based on what you just said, like the entire thing, but you know, the first one was I do remember maybe the first six months of you know, the pandemic, where a lot of folks were having to spend things up in the cloud.

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Geremy Meyers: very vividly remember like East EMEA somewhere in in Europe, like there was a two or three different instance types of just completely stopped.

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Geremy Meyers: spinning up, in fact, if you didn’t have reserved instance there were there were chances were really a stop to registering because there was no instance side right So if you powered it off.

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Geremy Meyers: there’s a good chance wouldn’t come back up, which I thought was was fascinating and I had never seen before, I always thought the cloud was like infinite supply there was never an issue and my eyes were open, I am not gonna lie.

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Patrick Coble: yeah and I go and and it still happens from time to time, and the only thing that i’ve seen the most one of the most important things that people going in the cloud is make sure you’re monitoring it.

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Patrick Coble: And you have some analytics because your mileage will vary.

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Patrick Coble: Every single day right and that’s based on the host you’re on what they’re doing what you’re doing.

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Patrick Coble: How many people are streaming fortnight in there, you know watching you know tiger gang so.

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Patrick Coble: All those things on your local side and their side that’s where you know I know y’all big partner with control, up to and you know I love what they do.

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Patrick Coble: that’s where having that analytics and visibility.

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Patrick Coble: is also going to affect your scalability to right, so that you know, like oh i’ve got enough instances were good.

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Patrick Coble: versus to your point some instances don’t register because we’re out of that instance on us East to and azure on a Tuesday like Oh, but it’s good tomorrow or it’s good in a couple hours, but you got to really pay attention that stuff.

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Geremy Meyers: The other thing too is you brought up security and.

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Geremy Meyers: it’s funny when I first got my hands on azure what blew me away i’m going to ask you this question, you might not know the answer but you’re right when you click next next next.

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Geremy Meyers: blindly when creating a new instance type it does two things that I thought were a little suspect out of the gate but and i’m still trying to figure out why it’s the default but number one it wants to assign a public IP by default.

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Geremy Meyers: And then number two it wants to enable RDP by default as well, and I, and I want to say the security group that gets added as well automatically opens up you know 3389.

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Geremy Meyers: So if you.

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Geremy Meyers: All things being equal, just blew through the install now you gotta you gotta virtual machines sitting on the Internet publicly exposed RDP and you doesn’t take long for you see the brute force attack start to take off folks trying to hit it.

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Patrick Coble: it’s a major there’s about 10,000 ips that scan the whole Internet every single day right.

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Patrick Coble: The whole IP space and out of those 10,000 you know those are a lot of those are like showdown.

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Geremy Meyers: Right so like you know.

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Patrick Coble: some kind of fun stuff that you can do so, it keeps track of all the you know 3380 lines open up in the world, but yeah I I understand why they did it.

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Patrick Coble: But the my biggest gripe of that default next next next you can rsvp to it.

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Patrick Coble: Is that’s not secure by design and the cloud was intended to be, for an, I guess, and maybe it is the wrong intention, but was intended for admins right for it people that are hopefully there.

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Patrick Coble: But it seems like their ui of making machine in azure or you know aws is a little bit different.

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Patrick Coble: But with as default rules.

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Patrick Coble: And the wizards because it will warn you, quite a few times like hey you’re about to put something on the public Internet where as yours like click click click click click it’s on there, thanks, so it made me feel like it was just like user centric.

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Patrick Coble: And so I have done audits of people that have thousands to 10s of thousands of vmware and multiple cloud tenants.

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Patrick Coble: And when we do a couple of network security group audits they’re blown away that there’s 580 sitting on the Internet, you know and 312 here and 16 there and I didn’t even think we had vmware on in this tenant.

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Patrick Coble: And that’s where it goes back to that cost shuffle of data being like a flat fee, you know from like Microsoft whether it’s on or off.

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Patrick Coble: Like a vd is you know, based on the consumption, but the cloud PC and the business PC under those two umbrellas for business enterprise, you get charged the same amount, whether the vm is on or off.

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Patrick Coble: And so, then it’s like oh.

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Patrick Coble: Who cares but you know what we still see, is it still impacts, the rest of the people in that same tenant and data Center so yeah you’re right.

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Andy Whiteside: So.

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Andy Whiteside: Going back.

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Geremy Meyers: i’m sorry go ahead, no.

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Andy Whiteside: No just gonna blow my comments, going to be a lot of the scalability allowed the ability to integrate with all the things I love the ability to put it on the Internet, they get off the Internet.

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Andy Whiteside: But, but it kind of goes back to the original days of Microsoft and it’s there to make things work and make it easy to work, but the same time.

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Andy Whiteside: All the possible negatives from a security perspective and comes comes rushing through if you’re not careful.

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Andy Whiteside: The first thing that came to my mind, is patrick’s on behalf of how easy it was when Microsoft came out with Internet information server is next thing you know, everybody and their brother had a had a web server and it was it was almost wide open.

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yeah.

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Geremy Meyers: yeah so The other thing that comes to mind with security is, I guess, two things, so we start talking about that data and potentially offloading some management components.

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Geremy Meyers: To a to a provider is one you know, reducing your attack surface, so you know it’s a big deal and security department’s but the number two it Patrick How much are you saying just regulations drive the security posture especially these days.

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Geremy Meyers: So in some of these models.

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Patrick Coble: it’s still well, I think, not the the those types of policies it’s the insurance the steering the boat, more than anything.

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Patrick Coble: The cybersecurity insurance back and say call it the 80s 90s of you getting car insurance, it was just based on your age right.

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Patrick Coble: It didn’t really put a lot of stuff there wasn’t lots of national databases, to find out like how good a driver you really were or not good.

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Patrick Coble: Whereas now they’re they’re pulling your credit report and they’re pulling this and correlating all these data points will be like.

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Patrick Coble: yeah they pay their bills on time and they’re here they don’t have any tickets there that’s what’s happened to cybersecurity insurance after billions of dollars have been paid out and ransoms disclosed and undisclosed.

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Patrick Coble: That changed the game cybersecurity insurance providers were losing money.

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Patrick Coble: And so i’ve seen people that have gone from you know, three you know $3,000 a month to 10 that are $3,000 a year to $10,000 a year and i’ve seen policies go from 80,000 to 200 and 300,000.

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Patrick Coble: And it’s because they’re sending a survey to them that says like one of the first questions is do you have multi factor authentication turned on.

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Patrick Coble: Right, do you have any advanced threat protection what products for a V what Sim are you using so they’re actually like real valid questions of like.

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Patrick Coble: foundational cyber security stuff and if you hit yes or no your policy just went up or down.

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Patrick Coble: And that has completely just turned the whole world upside down because now, people are like.

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Patrick Coble: Oh, what what’s a what what is this and what’s the nist policy and do D Stig and all those compliance bodies and frameworks that are like we have to get this turned on because we don’t have CES Level one turned on.

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Patrick Coble: Then our insurance is going to go up by 20% you know, and we have MFA and we have this so cybersecurity insurance is not cheap anymore it’s not all you can eat Buffet.

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Patrick Coble: Because they just paid out too much and people’s bad habits of it, hygiene and things like that.

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Patrick Coble: Have pretty much you know completely blown up that market and it’s it’s been pretty eye opening to see.

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Patrick Coble: And being part of security audits that are trying to help them because.

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Patrick Coble: That you know they have those questions down to have you had a penetration tests have you go to vulnerability management scans and stuff like that.

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Patrick Coble: Where it goes before it was just like company size revenue this this how many systems cool oh yeah it’s $32,000 a year that same customer now has you know 40 page survey to fill out and now it’s $192,000 a year like whoa.

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Geremy Meyers: that’s why.

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Andy Whiteside: I think that you, you run a bad habits mean, these are bad habits that came over from the desktop days which were bad, then you take that and so it’s just something that’s publicly addressable or closer to the crown jewels.

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Andy Whiteside: wow watch out.

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Patrick Coble: He agreed.

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Todd Smith – Citrix: And I think that you brought up you brought up an interesting point about the security audits that are going in there, where the church companies are going in and saying hey.

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Todd Smith – Citrix: here’s a question here that’s the first step right the second step is they’re going to tell you all of the things that need to be fixed or else your policies nolan boyd.

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Todd Smith – Citrix: Right or they’re not you’re not going to be eligible to get compensated in case you do have something goes wrong.

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Todd Smith – Citrix: Because they’ve already warned you right, so this is the.

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Todd Smith – Citrix: This is the law of unintended consequences right you get it you go out and get cyber insurance he finds out, you have to go and fix all these things.

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Todd Smith – Citrix: And you know, I was doing it auditing when Sarbanes Oxley first came out and.

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Todd Smith – Citrix: You know, we were it is best friend, because we do identify all these things that they were going to fail, as our veins Oxley audit on unless they fixed it and now all of a sudden, it was saying hey we’ve we finally got money to go and do a.

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Todd Smith – Citrix: Active directory scrubbing fill or clean up the backup system and you all of these other tasks, and I think this next big step in this cyber insurance.

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Todd Smith – Citrix: conversations really going to be, how do we make sure that we’re in compliance with not only the government regulations that are out there, but also, you know, a cyber insurance policy that’s out there.

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Todd Smith – Citrix: very similar when you’re a homeowner and they come back and tell you hey you need to cut the shrubs around your book around your House, because they’re a fire hazard.

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Todd Smith – Citrix: You know what they’re not going to give you fire insurance or, if you do you’re going to have to pay considerable higher rate right there’s there’s just it’s becoming more and more of a finally we’ve got someone watching and forcing it to have good behavior and good habits.

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Patrick Coble: And who would have thought, even in my you know being around as long as a bunch of us have in it that the insurance company would be doing more.

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Patrick Coble: For it security and clean ups and all that then us any other product or outside acting for us right like insurance is like.

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Patrick Coble: yeah you need to get that done, you need to trim those bushes you need to pull that out, you need to get a fire hydrant installed here right like you’re out of fire code to you know, so it is wild.

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Andy Whiteside: But think about it’s the same in every other aspect of the general lives we live you’ll you’ll lead those pushes out of control, somebody will until the neighborhood Hoa starts finding.

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Andy Whiteside: Okay, so we jumped down the security in this article to blend back in from the other conversations we I assumed would come up out of management and integration, but we should probably go back into the management conversation real quick.

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Andy Whiteside: Todd you want to take the rest of what we didn’t cover around management from the security aspect.

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Andy Whiteside: and talk to talk about how dads and vdi compared to each other, there.

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Todd Smith – Citrix: is I think we’re we’ve got a couple of things to hit on here when it comes to management right management is two things, one of them is control.

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Todd Smith – Citrix: And the other one is visibility right so being able to have a centralized management aspect where you know we all we’ve all heard.

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Todd Smith – Citrix: In talked about this one single pane of glass view the operations and all that stuff right, but it really does come down to if you can manage it centrally for one organization or for one group or from one console.

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Todd Smith – Citrix: it’s going to be you’re going to your apt to miss out on little my new details.

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Todd Smith – Citrix: If you also have good management policies you’re going to not miss.

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Todd Smith – Citrix: not miss those false flags are those those those bothersome alarms that are going off right you want to be able to have.

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Todd Smith – Citrix: The trip wires out there that are going to tell you that something happened in that it’s already automatically been remediated.

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Todd Smith – Citrix: Where you’re just getting notified that something has been fixed right so there’s there’s that aspect of it and that ties into the only way, you can do that effectively is to have visibility, so the analytics piece of it being able to.

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Todd Smith – Citrix: have not only the visibility, but also being able to act upon it, and that all kind of ties into a much stronger.

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Todd Smith – Citrix: working environment that is both secure but it’s also you know very proficient and efficient, as well as being you know.

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Todd Smith – Citrix: resilient and also operationally effective for the user right you’re going to give give the user, a great experience, but if it comes at the cost of.

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Todd Smith – Citrix: Giving up security or not being able to manage the problem I mean you think about it a lot of the bad habits that we have just been talking about.

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Todd Smith – Citrix: came out of that that equation of I can improve security but i’m going to have a bad user experience or vice versa, in nine times out of 10.

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Todd Smith – Citrix: We in the IT field, we would say we’re going to sacrifice security for user experience, because the security folks don’t come in yellow our CIO like the users do when they have a bad experience.

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Andy Whiteside: It wasn’t just the battle we chose not to fight.

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Can.

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Andy Whiteside: You have that conversation right we’re in a we’re in a situation now with with cloud platforms and pass solutions where we have the ability to manage and also endpoint management, better than ever before, so we have a fighting chance now and we can’t continue to look away.

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To.

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Todd Smith – Citrix: In some cases.

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Todd Smith – Citrix: Some of the best ways to manage it is to take away those threat vectors and those access points right, so you know if if you’re at risk because you have data stored on an endpoint device or you’re downloading information to someone’s you know iPhone or tablet.

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Todd Smith – Citrix: Why don’t we just do something like take access away and have them force that user to a virtual desktop or to virtualize application.

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Todd Smith – Citrix: Where you don’t have to worry about data leakage you don’t have to give up control of that data.

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Todd Smith – Citrix: You know this is a conversation that we’ve been having with customers are 10 plus years data on the endpoints is one of your biggest risks out there it’s not as much because that’s the least that’s the component, that you have the least amount of control over.

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Andy Whiteside: there’s no way to eliminate the physical loss of the device that there’s data there it’s a talk for two people security all time I just wait till they get the restaurant as take your laptop and then ask them how security and best the answer well it’s encrypted but bottom that complicating.

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Andy Whiteside: It would you guys agree that our platform from the end user perspective is stronger than ever so that.

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Andy Whiteside: They now know that, because of the security stuff they see on the news that they can’t fight us for user experience on every at every turn, when we have to add security to what is their it world.

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Geremy Meyers: I think folks understand it now like in the past, it was definitely a nuisance for a lot of for a lot of users, but I think, because a lot of these security threats have hit consumers on a personal level.

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Geremy Meyers: They get it right, so the whole idea of having multifactor on some kind of personal account if I connect to my gmail account from a device i’m not connected to before.

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Geremy Meyers: I get asked to go, you know just acknowledge that that was actually me, whereas five years ago, I saw physicians getting the fight over passwords being 90 days just things like that right, so I think as an industry.

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Geremy Meyers: You know, obviously we’re still trying to streamline that process for sure, but at the end of the day, I think there’s an understanding from end users, that you know participating as a part of security is important to the business right and so i’ve noticed a big change for sure.

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Andy Whiteside: So, Patrick is the guy that gets to run around here what the security stick, you have to consider the user experience in your responses are is.

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Patrick Coble: Totally because there’s no point in locking down, something that you’ve made unusable right.

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Patrick Coble: We, but the most important part of that, as we know, we’re going to have to make some mitigation some deviations so that things can work.

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Patrick Coble: And, especially when you talk about old hand old fashioned applications so you’re going to have to adjust things he what you can do is.

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Patrick Coble: Try to apply as much as many policies, as you can and know which gaps are open and so like I still deal with a lot of people that still have to have macros enabled for business applications that do finance related things.

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Patrick Coble: So we do what we can to secure that and we know that that’s an attack avenue that is still going to be possible on those systems for those users, but every other system it’s not allowed to happen so we’ve got to you know choose our battles.

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Patrick Coble: And you know you can’t boil the ocean and just think that you’re going to secure all the things it’s going to be good so you’ve got to take baby steps.

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Andy Whiteside: And it’s.

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Patrick Coble: it’s a it’s a journey and it never stops, especially with new attack vectors coming all the time.

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Patrick Coble: And you know I i’m updating a privacy presentation i’m doing in a few minutes here.

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Patrick Coble: And you know, like ISO files and link files are now becoming a very cool way to break into people’s systems and a link file seems like it’s like so benign.

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Patrick Coble: But what you can stuff into that link and what your browser will execute is kind of amazing and there’s there’s there is.

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Patrick Coble: I guess malware as a service when it comes to those link creations there’s a company there’s a team company.

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Patrick Coble: That makes that software that is a gooey and everything so you’re just like click click click I wanted to run power Shell click click click they’re here they’re there here’s a domain name click click click.

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Patrick Coble: Next, it generates the link you copy and paste it at it as an attachment to an email to your fishing campaign anyone clicks that link very bad things start happening.

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Patrick Coble: And it’s like it’s just a link just a dot l NK that’s being sent via email, and so we talked about dads or you know vdi or just regular endpoints like it’s just these threats are coming from all angles, so you got to do what you can and just keep chipping away at it.

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Andy Whiteside: Because we’re going to run out of time, I think the moment based on patrick’s comment there to make sure people know to reach out to him reach out to us about his vdi security assessments, he will find a lot of stuff I don’t care, who you are.

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Andy Whiteside: about you, your organization your vdi your leadership personally just a great resource to have out there.

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Andy Whiteside: I did want to make sure we left a few moments here for Todd explain this video at the bottom, which play on, and when you what is what is DJ Dev versus notorious VI VI VI VI VI.

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Todd Smith – Citrix: VI yeah so Andy i’m a little kind of.

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Todd Smith – Citrix: challenged in fact that they didn’t call is DJ Desi dazzle bring back.

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I would have names.

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Todd Smith – Citrix: And you know the tourist vdi obviously a big shout out to the Tories big out there, but it really kind of talks.

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Todd Smith – Citrix: About you know where the different options are it really does come down to do, I really need a true vdi infrastructure to be able to do my job or do I only need access to just that application, and this is something that we have had kind of in our.

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Todd Smith – Citrix: In our wheelhouse for a while, your citrix and one of the things that is, it was a challenge when first real that vdi is giving people a full blown desktop and all of you who has access to the application itself.

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Todd Smith – Citrix: But vdi was a much simpler way to deliver that application in all of the supporting components in a desktop as opposed to giving it out in a.

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Todd Smith – Citrix: In a true bone just a focus application right so vdi made it a lot easier for us, and it also made a lot easier for the administrators and the users, because it was a one stop shop for all your applications your services your data.

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Todd Smith – Citrix: All delivered in a nice little buttoned up desktop.

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Andy Whiteside: Coming, a while ago that the year of death, more likely to happen someday than the year of vdi because vdi was so limiting but at the same time, a lot of people found success there go ahead, you.

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Geremy Meyers: know, I was going to make the comment that you know, we could have could have watch three minute video this rap battle, if you will, between vdi and DAS probably skip the podcast.

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Geremy Meyers: is pretty fine.

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Geremy Meyers: I love the fact that the I know we can’t hear it here with the tune is to like my favorite just 90s rapper 90s hip hop.

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Geremy Meyers: don’t.

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Andy Whiteside: watch it.

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Geremy Meyers: You can’t make.

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Andy Whiteside: up the watch it.

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Andy Whiteside: Well guys thanks for doing this as as a fun topic Patrick what’s next in your world and he said yeah presentation, you had in just a few minutes.

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Patrick Coble: yeah i’ve got a privacy presentation for a company.

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Patrick Coble: Which is pretty fun because I already have a bunch of their breach I already have a bunch of their passwords and usernames.

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Patrick Coble: And we’re talking about privacy so it’ll it’ll start the.

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Patrick Coble: Meeting off right of like here.

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Patrick Coble: Here is 44 passwords that your company is using right now out in the real world that someone can do bad things with so it’ll make it real fun and about you know 10 minutes when we get into that a little bit.

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Andy Whiteside: And, and I think the day you’d rather know that not know, even if it means you’re going to be the bubble totally yep yep.

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Patrick Coble: And I think sometimes that’s the hard part about a lot of this stuff is sometimes we want to just not know.

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Patrick Coble: and ignorance is bliss, but if you really want to know even, no matter how bad or good it is so that you can adjust and be like Oh well.

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Patrick Coble: This these users are using these terrible passwords let’s make sure we give them a little coaching session real quick and audit these passwords.

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Patrick Coble: Since they are still you know all the password list stuff we’re doing there’s still have access to the keys to the kingdom and many deployments you know.

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Andy Whiteside: JEREMY Todd what’s next in your world after this call.

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Geremy Meyers: I am headed up to New Jersey and facts we’re doing two beers with engineers up and I got an SEC up in the Jersey patch bill chappell and we’re going to host some folks have a good time.

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Patrick Coble: that’d be fun.

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Todd Smith – Citrix: and got a couple of interviews scheduled for a SEC position I have will be available in Toronto.

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Andy Whiteside: When both cases on the beers with engineers, or the hiring UFC you know, let them take her know we can help, and we have people everywhere, these days, and we want to help drive people in your direction.

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Andy Whiteside: guys, I appreciate you jumping on we’ll do it again next Monday thanks travel for the first one.

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Patrick Coble: Thank y’all y’all have a great.

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Andy Whiteside: So you guys enjoy thanks.