66: Nutanix Weekly: New NCM Cost Governance Test Drive Reins in Cloud Costs

Apr 21, 2023

The Nutanix Cloud Manager (NCM) Cost Governance™ solution is ideal for customers challenged by the ongoing analysis and reporting of spend by cost center, driving accountability against budgets, and finding opportunities to optimize your cloud spend. Through one unified interface, NCM Cost Governance allows customers to manage costs across their public, private, and hybrid multicloud environments. 

As investment in public cloud resources increases, the need for robust cost management across hybrid multicloud endpoints also grows. Gartner estimates show the magnitude of the savings opportunity with “Worldwide end-user spending on public cloud services forecast to grow 20.7% to total $591.8 billion in 2023, up from $490.3 billion in 2022.” 

Host: Andy Whiteside
Co-host: Harvey Green
Co-host: Philip Sellers
Co-host: Jirah Cox
Co-host: Ben Rogers


00:00:02.140 –> 00:00:05.060
Andy Whiteside: Hello, everyone! Welcome to the episode. 66 of

00:00:05.150 –> 00:00:10.840
Andy Whiteside: new tennis weekly. I’m. Your host, Andy White side today. Is a April seventeenth, 2,023.

00:00:10.890 –> 00:00:23.430
Andy Whiteside: Happy to have this group back. We’ve got phillip sellers on this integral side. One of our subject matter experts as well as Harvey Greed is our former newutanic subject matter expert who’s now leading the Zinte or Gov. Business?

00:00:23.470 –> 00:00:24.880
Andy Whiteside: How are you 2 guys doing

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Philip Sellers: Well, how are you doing?

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Andy Whiteside: I’m: I’m. Good. I’m glad to be back in the office 2 weeks of being out of office between conferences and vacation. either. One of you guys go somewhere last week.

00:00:38.090 –> 00:00:57.750
Philip Sellers: Oh, I stayed a little late after the I jail conference, and took my daughter over to take a look at Vanderbilt University. So we did. Our first official college tour. You know how much Vanderbilt calls. Oh, yes, I do. Yes, I do. I wanted to be plant that seat

00:00:57.750 –> 00:00:59.750
Philip Sellers: you take over to Belmont. Why, you read it.

00:01:00.010 –> 00:01:11.090
Philip Sellers: We wrote through Belmont as well, so she got to see a couple of different campuses. She spent some time at Duke last summer for a summer program. So

00:01:11.230 –> 00:01:19.690
Philip Sellers: we we’re getting our feet wet. So I have 4 kids, and they go to any college they want to as long as it’s state, supported in North Carolina.

00:01:20.720 –> 00:01:31.890
Andy Whiteside: So, Harvey, you’ve mentioned to me this one of your head, now to Sedona, now Sedona Scottsdale, Arizona, to be part of the new tanks. Health care. Qbr. Out West.

00:01:31.930 –> 00:01:33.850
Andy Whiteside: Get another chance to start doing those again.

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Harvey Green III: Yes.

00:01:34.940 –> 00:01:42.480
Harvey Green III: it’s it’s good to meet in person and talk and get to see faces and all of that. So fun i’m excited.

00:01:42.560 –> 00:01:50.960
Andy Whiteside: Well, from the mechanic side we have our old friend Gyra Cox job. I didn’t mean like old friend. I meant that we’ve known for a while. How are you

00:01:51.010 –> 00:02:04.140
Jirah Cox: now? We do have our old friend Ben Rogers, who I do. Never mind then sorry about that. So, Gyro. What you been up to, I mean. At least i’m not a recently recently demoted a new tennis expert that would really, you know.

00:02:04.160 –> 00:02:15.740
Jirah Cox: I guess that just happened. I’ve I’ve definitely been busy. It’s been my fault for a very, very long gap in in podcast episodes, but

00:02:15.740 –> 00:02:25.520
Jirah Cox: had the privilege to attend our tech summit, where you saw y’all in Vegas, and then they got to go to our one for a Pj. In Singapore, or one in, I mean for France.

00:02:25.650 –> 00:02:39.150
Jirah Cox: The travel was disruptive, let’s say, to podcast recording, but it’s great. Got to spend some time training some of our other se’s around the world so grateful for the opportunity. But Podcast unfortunately had to had to suffer a little bit.

00:02:39.150 –> 00:02:46.320
Jirah Cox: It’s it’s so funny you bring your name up to just about any by ever newutanics, and they just talk about you like You’re the oracle of new tanks

00:02:47.020 –> 00:02:50.580
Jirah Cox: he is. I don’t. That’s why I don’t do it. I don’t really know it to anybody.

00:02:50.710 –> 00:02:57.020
Andy Whiteside: and he’s and he’s super humble. He he could be a arrogant, you know. What if you wanted to but love the fact that he’s so humble.

00:02:57.500 –> 00:03:08.610
Jirah Cox: Well, that sounds like fun. Who’d want to do that? So you’d be surprised. Oh, i’ll tell you guys something real quick. I got an opportunity, the Igl Conference last week to go on stage twice 2 different roles.

00:03:08.820 –> 00:03:15.560
Andy Whiteside: and one of my competitors, after a few Beers stopped me in the hall and said, hey, we figured you out. I’m like, what are you talking about? He said. Here’s like

00:03:15.650 –> 00:03:34.730
Andy Whiteside: You’re just a polished Redneck, that’s all you are. I don’t know whether it take that as a compliment. It’s like it as a compliment, and i’ll call verse. Yeah. Well, I was. I was carrying around a course light when he said it, so maybe maybe not congrats to. So so the photos. Yeah, you guys had a bunch of big old crowd on stage. At that, Joe.

00:03:34.730 –> 00:03:40.660
Andy Whiteside: It was great to be back in our element, and having people together again.

00:03:40.900 –> 00:03:54.030
Andy Whiteside: Well, Ben Rogers with us been told us, a little interesting bit before we got started. He’s actually out of his son’s golf event. He’s sitting in the car hopefully, with air conditioning on with the sitting at the first, he waiting for the event to start. Then how’s it going?

00:03:54.410 –> 00:04:02.460
Ben Rogers: I’m doing well andy it’s been good to be back in the seat. I’ve also had a little bit of an absence. I did something similar to Driver. I did a $10

00:04:02.500 –> 00:04:20.910
Ben Rogers: tech summit, and then the last couple of months. I’m. In concentrating on Newtonic certifications and doing what my job is. 9 to 5 man closing deals and trying to bring some business in the new tanks. So we had a good quarter last year. Got 2 good certifications, so I’ve been busy. Been happy, and I glad to be sitting in the seat and so excited for today’s podcast.

00:04:20.910 –> 00:04:27.110
Andy Whiteside: Yeah, you’re You’re the epitome of hybrid work. and I guess you’ve been working hybrid for what? 4 years. Now

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Ben Rogers: 3 years right right, when the pandemic started. So I was one that made a career change right at the beginning of the pandemic went through the shock and awe of that whole scene, and have come out, you know I would consider myself very successful. So yeah, I

00:04:42.170 –> 00:04:54.260
Ben Rogers: been hybrid work for 3 years. It would take a lot to get me to go back to a regular 9 to 5 Once you’ve been on this side, man. It’s hard to it’s hard to flip that script back.

00:04:54.470 –> 00:05:03.010
Andy Whiteside: I felt great for you because you’re happy doing what you’re doing, and being successful, you were before. But when you were working 7 to 6. Forget 95. It was 7 to 6 when I saw you.

00:05:03.060 –> 00:05:06.710
Andy Whiteside: I was like man. If this guy ever found what the rest of the world does.

00:05:06.990 –> 00:05:08.000
Andy Whiteside: Yeah.

00:05:09.200 –> 00:05:25.560
Ben Rogers: yeah, but you gotta have. You gotta have that customer facing talent inside of the building. So, man, I I enjoyed working for all the companies I work for as a director and as a as an it leader. But there is man responsibility.

00:05:25.560 –> 00:05:44.080
Ben Rogers: you know, stress that goes along with that I see Philip shaking his head. I I miss the days of having control of projects and seeing them from beginning to end. But I don’t miss the day of having to have that phone, you know. 24 h a day, 7 days a week, even in weekends and holidays. So

00:05:44.080 –> 00:05:59.110
Andy Whiteside: yeah, better, sweet my friend. Well, here’s the thing in most organizations, though the world of hybrid work with the commitments that you just alluded to, it’s more of a blended than it was before where you know they don’t have to be there every minute of every day, if their son has a golf term and they need to work from the car they can.

00:06:00.150 –> 00:06:24.170
Ben Rogers: Yeah, technology has definitely lended itself more to that today than when I was in the 4 walls. And you know, we every disaster has a silver lining. So I think that’s one thing out of the pandemic, is. It really did push that work from home mobility? You know I talked to my old boss at Cnsa, and she liked having people in the building. She liked that. We had a remote.

00:06:24.350 –> 00:06:36.330
Ben Rogers: you know, way of getting in. But I think the pandemic really showed her how effective and efficient the workforce can be at home when you have a good balance. Now, I’ve got a friend of mine that’s in commercial real estate

00:06:36.740 –> 00:06:54.290
Ben Rogers: and commercial real estate. People are hurting right now. They’re trying to reinvent themselves and reinvent that you know square footage, and it’ll be real interesting to see how we transition man. Society is in a big transition right now, corporate personal, You know we we see what’s going on.

00:06:54.290 –> 00:07:09.420
Ben Rogers: We’re in an interesting time, so i’m i’m glad to be where i’m at i’m glad to see where i’m headed. And one thing that you, said Man Gyra is a great leader technically and personally, within new tanks, so he is an oracle within an organization. So when you hear that

00:07:09.420 –> 00:07:17.930
Ben Rogers: in the halls of these conferences. No, as an internal mechanics employee, that man, the company depends on his wit and his knowledge a great deal.

00:07:18.960 –> 00:07:39.550
Jirah Cox: Yeah, I I I use this term all the time. Yeah, we do a podcast. Yeah, whatever we do a podcast for Jonath Gyro. And right oh, yeah, I’ve checked it out. So, Gyra, it’s been lovely to both be demoted in the same ex episode where you’re put on a platform at your

00:07:40.460 –> 00:08:07.870
Andy Whiteside: so guys, the the blog for today is by Guy, named Charlie Bowden, and it is from April fourth, 2,023, and the name of it is New Newtonix to be new Ncm. That stands for Newtonics Cloud manager. You know it. Guys love to use acronyms even in the Frickin title. Sorry had to go off on that new new new Ncm. Cost governance test drive rains in cloud cost.

00:08:08.130 –> 00:08:12.650
Andy Whiteside: Gyra. Why did we? Why did you Just why did you help us pick this one today.

00:08:12.930 –> 00:08:31.170
Jirah Cox: I think it’s actionable. I think it’s pretty. It’s a it’s good for folks. It reminds me of some meetings I had earlier this week, and last week. Sorry Not earlier this week. It’s Monday. Hello! Last week, a couple of times. Sorry. It was a really good weekend that directly addressed.

00:08:31.170 –> 00:08:42.010
Jirah Cox: You know some pain points they were having around. Hey, They have all this stuff, but they didn’t know. You know this is a customer that had, you know, several 100 and virtual machines in their environment.

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Jirah Cox: No real idea even what

00:08:45.810 –> 00:09:03.730
Jirah Cox: line of business owned each one right. What was it used for? Who was in charge of? How well it was running right like who to even ask for application. Metrics, let alone send alerts to right. So governance is kind of it’s. It’s at the core of being successful with everything we do, and how everything help our customers to do

00:09:03.730 –> 00:09:13.180
Andy Whiteside: so. This is the second time today i’m having a conversation with someone, and we’re talking about the fact that we’ve got to figure out how much does this portion and that portion and that portion cost?

00:09:13.180 –> 00:09:27.910
Andy Whiteside: And then we’ve got to figure out what buckets to put in, because every single dollar spent. It needs to go in somebody’s bucket where somebody’s paying for it, and this blob of it spin. It’s been around for 30 years now. Has got to stop.

00:09:28.520 –> 00:09:42.200
Ben Rogers: So so, Andy, I’ve got an interesting perspective on this coming from the customer side. And now coming over to the vendor side, this is something that customers really want. They want to be able to set a value around their computing resources

00:09:42.200 –> 00:09:59.060
Ben Rogers: and potentially be able to charge back. So from sea levels in an it department, this is going to catch a lot of attention. This gets exaggerated once you get in the cloud, because now you’ve got multiple buckets that you’re looking at having to contain, and if there’s a a cost to that

00:09:59.060 –> 00:10:12.600
Ben Rogers: you definitely want to be able to charge that back to an entity within your organization. So when I was fully on Prem, I was being asked from our financial people tell us what departments are using these resources, so we can figure out how to divvy that up.

00:10:12.600 –> 00:10:29.660
Ben Rogers: Now facing cloud spin multiple cloud spins. I can see this even being more important for sea levels to be able to evaluate and to be able to quantify. And that’s what this you know software really is doing for us. So so, Ben, i’ll ask you this question, and i’ll go to Philip, who just came out of a corporate environment before joining us

00:10:29.660 –> 00:10:51.790
Andy Whiteside: when it was on premises. The idea that you would like to know how much everything costs was a real idea, but a lot of cases they didn’t get it done one because it was a lot of work, and there was a lot of complexity to it. But now that you’re paying as a service by the drip in the cloud. And you’re probably paying a lot for those services. It’s no longer a like to have it’s a must have. Would you agree with that?

00:10:51.790 –> 00:11:09.660
Ben Rogers: It it is a must have. And the cool thing about this is this: in Java. Keep me honest here. This thing will actually evaluate costs in certain situations across vendors. So you might, could do some predictive analysis and say, hey, today, it might be good to run it here, but tomorrow we might want to look at here. So

00:11:09.660 –> 00:11:25.130
Ben Rogers: with the cloud it becomes an active resource group resource, location, where on prem, you didn’t have that. So on. Prem. It was nice because I could go to research and go. Hey, you’re using 30 of our environment. We’re going to charge you 30 back of the cost. Here it’s like all right.

00:11:25.130 –> 00:11:39.250
Ben Rogers: These departments are pushing the envelopes in these cloud environments. Can I get that cloud cost over other environments lowered so that I don’t have to take a big hit on it. So again, multiple avenues and multiple issues that this is going to solve for customers.

00:11:39.250 –> 00:11:46.930
Andy Whiteside: So, Philip, you were at a corporate environment before. Did you guys have this done? Was it a work in progress? Was it a never ending work in progress. Where were you guys at?

00:11:47.170 –> 00:11:55.310
Philip Sellers: Yeah, it was a never ending work in progress. I mean it. The the little truth in this is that success in the cloud is costly, right?

00:11:55.470 –> 00:12:08.770
Philip Sellers: And and what’s the business care about? Most Well, initially, it’s success. You want to have successful projects, but then that can snowball rather quickly with unlimited resources.

00:12:08.770 –> 00:12:21.190
Philip Sellers: You always have a limit when you’re operating on Prem. You only have a finite amount of resources to allocate, and so we manage those differently, and and when it goes out your door to a hyper scalar

00:12:21.460 –> 00:12:23.370
Philip Sellers: it it’s got the limits.

00:12:23.550 –> 00:12:29.170
Andy Whiteside: So to me it’s like a rebirth of like the early 2 thousands where it had unlimited.

00:12:30.060 –> 00:12:44.480
Andy Whiteside: They they felt like they had unlimited money in the in the Moore’s law stuff was happening, and we could just buy, buy, buy, buy, and all of a sudden companies realize, hey, this it spins out of control. Where’s an account? And I can make the CIO. That’s what I went through in the early 2 thousands.

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Andy Whiteside: Harvey, do you experience you that?

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Harvey Green III: Absolutely it was there that happened to me a few times in my career where the the CIO either reported to finance or was from finance. Yeah.

00:12:58.540 –> 00:12:59.200

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Andy Whiteside: So J. Of the first module let’s cover that when it says, Charge back in budgeting.

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Andy Whiteside: How does that apply to this? Ncm.

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Jirah Cox: Yeah. So I mean that ability to even map back resources right to who’s using what is is kind of one to one right. We have to know who owns this thing right

00:13:22.170 –> 00:13:33.220
Jirah Cox: with with Ncm. Cost government specifically right the cool thing actually is this multi-cloud, so that of course, that business unit could own stuff in it of us in azure or whatever

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Jirah Cox: that’s where the budget comes in right? We’ve all been in these meetings with these customers that are like, oh, yeah, we’re on a 3 year migration to public cloud. We are 2 years in

00:13:42.840 –> 00:13:44.930
Jirah Cox: we’re like 15% migrated

00:13:45.090 –> 00:14:03.400
Jirah Cox: and hitting 90% of cost targets. Right? We’re not slowing down. But that’s where we are right. We’re not pausing to evaluate. But that’s where we are. The budgeting can be useful to say. I want to know in January, if i’m trending for a 12 month, spend

00:14:03.400 –> 00:14:18.680
Jirah Cox: that’s gonna make me rethink my cloud budget right. I want to know. In February I want to know early, right versus just hey Oops. I hit my budget in the cloud in April or May, and now the next 7 months are my problem to deal with. Right? So it’s both

00:14:19.100 –> 00:14:34.860
Jirah Cox: charge back about mapping. You know business units and ownership to resources typically in on-prem environments. That’s virtual machines. In the cloud it can be any service right? Can be Ebs can be. You know gateways can be any any service that they get out of the portal

00:14:34.860 –> 00:14:40.360
Jirah Cox: all then tied back to budgeting, so both forecasting and cost control.

00:14:40.680 –> 00:14:51.390
Andy Whiteside: So sorry if i’m an existing Newtonic shop, and I use this tool. Will that help me plan for moving to either native hyperscal or newutanics on top of hypers going

00:14:52.070 –> 00:15:07.660
Jirah Cox: it sure can I sure can. I mean like so this this can give me a cost per virtual machine, right? I can take that to the business and say, well, what you already run costs X. Right? It’s pretty easy. It’s a public service right? Those Api. Is to go. Do that look up of what would that same Vm. Cost in public cloud?

00:15:07.750 –> 00:15:12.660
Jirah Cox: Right? And then make data different decisions to say, yeah, let’s go ahead and move it or not.

00:15:13.020 –> 00:15:21.720
Jirah Cox: with the one caveat you teed up there. Well, India around moving it on top of New York and C 2, of course, changes those economics in your favor right? All the

00:15:21.720 –> 00:15:35.950
Jirah Cox: play with Nc. 2. Right? Why would I? What what I want to use in C 2 as a customer is, of course, you know, move faster on the public cloud, and then get better economics of staying in public cloud once I get there. So of course that of course, changes as well. But spoiler.

00:15:36.010 –> 00:15:49.450
Jirah Cox: you know. Ncm. Could also look at that and say, okay, Well, when your infrastructure costs you X and Y. Well, then, we go back through the the Vm. Costing worksheet, but with different inputs. Right? So so yeah, some real advantages there as well.

00:15:49.450 –> 00:16:07.080
Ben Rogers: So, Andy, I wanna I want to add something to this specifically for people like you, the partners that are listening to this and our customers. You now have moved into a proactive state instead of a reactive state, and that’s what the bosses are gonna want to hear. They’re gonna want you to come and go, hey?

00:16:07.080 –> 00:16:21.160
Ben Rogers: This is what we’re spending. This is where we’re trending. This is where we think it’s going to go. That is, gold to sea level. People that allows them to start planning. They can see where waste is coming in. We talk to a lot of customers again, Gyro. Keep me honest that

00:16:21.160 –> 00:16:42.840
Ben Rogers: they get a little bit of cloud shock. They have the initial. We got it there. We’re successful. Then the calls start coming in, and then they have to start reacting. Of how do we maintain this cost, or what a lot of them talk to us about is, how do we come back on Prem? And again you’ve moved from a reactive mode to a pro active mode using this cost coverance

00:16:42.840 –> 00:16:44.670
Ben Rogers: software that we’re talking about today.

00:16:44.870 –> 00:16:57.640
Andy Whiteside: Yeah, i’m it’s top of mind for me, because I gotta go to the Richmond in the morning customers talking to one of the hyper scalar players that are telling them that it’s gonna be, you know, to move from Newton to move all their desktop workloads into the cloud is going to cost you

00:16:57.660 –> 00:17:14.910
Andy Whiteside: this much, and if you can see my webcam like little Bitty this much, we’re afraid it’s gonna cost 10 times that. So we’re gonna go through a real exercise with the customer with the hyper scalar vendor on the phone, and we’re going to figure out what the cost may really look like for the different groups. It doesn’t have to be all in, or it can be. Portions of people go into the cloud.

00:17:15.040 –> 00:17:17.640
Andy Whiteside: We’re gonna go have that conversation tomorrow.

00:17:18.130 –> 00:17:32.530
Jirah Cox: I mean, I think it’s just worth having some reality there, right like there you can be. There can be tons of benefits right like people go to cloud for lots of reasons. Right? I I do it now. I need it in this location right? This Geo availability constraint. I need it on demand a elasticity

00:17:32.540 –> 00:17:34.870
Jirah Cox: all valid, right

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Jirah Cox: chasing lower cost. I mean, like Kpmg put out a survey last year that, like

00:17:40.990 –> 00:17:52.160
Jirah Cox: 2 thirds of it, leadership surveyed. So they were still waiting on any kind of cost, savings from cloud Cloud migration, right, which is fine like. Just understand You’re going for different reasons, right? It’s probably not cost savings. But

00:17:52.320 –> 00:17:56.610
Jirah Cox: as you’re going, and you you said this when you let off. Andy was like.

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Jirah Cox: You know that when you move to a cloud operating model which you are forced to adopt in a good way, right

00:18:02.590 –> 00:18:19.430
Jirah Cox: when you go to public cloud. You go there sometimes. That’s where you go right is to to force the entire organization to get move to a cloud operating model. Then that comes with at least cost. Transparency, right? You know what the Vm. Cost, because you’re gonna get a bill for it, whether you charge someone back or show someone back or not.

00:18:19.560 –> 00:18:21.330
Jirah Cox: The cost Transparency is there?

00:18:21.540 –> 00:18:29.760
Jirah Cox: This is a feature that helps save customers from. Do you want to go through all that heartache just to get cost transparency, because you can have that today anywhere. You are already

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Andy Whiteside: right

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Andy Whiteside: Cool

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Andy Whiteside: the next, Phillip. Hold on, Philip. Any comments again coming from an environment recently that had to go through these conversations.

00:18:42.810 –> 00:18:44.410
Philip Sellers: Yeah, I mean, you know

00:18:44.650 –> 00:18:53.830
Philip Sellers: it. It’s pretty common to get the the cloud shot the sticker shock after a while. There’s not a lot of transparency going in sometimes, and

00:18:53.950 –> 00:19:13.200
Philip Sellers: I know that’s one of the things it’s in Tiger. We we really try to educate our customers, make sure that they go in as wide open into these scenarios. And, as I said, there’s legitimate reasons, you know, flexibility, time to realize features, features, or geographies you don’t have access to.

00:19:13.450 –> 00:19:17.940
Philip Sellers: There’s lots of of good reasons, but

00:19:17.960 –> 00:19:34.980
Philip Sellers: there are going to be egress charges. There are going to be charges, for you know consumption on things that you’re not going to think of, that you may take for granted in your on prem environment. And those are going to show up on those bills, and I think that’s where a lot of customers actually get caught is

00:19:34.980 –> 00:19:41.340
Philip Sellers: some of the things that they weren’t thinking about, but we’ll actually end up translating to a bill.

00:19:41.780 –> 00:19:42.500
Andy Whiteside: Yeah.

00:19:43.660 –> 00:19:46.480
Ben Rogers: he just seed this perfectly into the next section.

00:19:47.040 –> 00:19:51.780
Andy Whiteside: Yeah. Next one is optimized Cloud resources. Then you want to take that, then?

00:19:52.400 –> 00:20:06.870
Ben Rogers: Well, I mean my thought here is, you know we have a lot of conversations about micro waste, and how in a native cloud environment. You have, you know, inherently, some microwave just because of the T-shirt sizes that they sell, you, and that that’s a that’s a good

00:20:07.130 –> 00:20:07.910
Ben Rogers: you know.

00:20:07.920 –> 00:20:19.030
Ben Rogers: moving point for Nc. 2 not to try to plug it in C 2 here. But you know you. You gain efficiency by going with bare metal because you eliminate some of those, you know. Cloud waste is what we call it.

00:20:19.030 –> 00:20:35.290
Ben Rogers: Well, when you’re doing the optimization, this software can actually look at things like unused resources. Or, you know, are you using an abundant of IP addresses that Aren’t slated anywhere? Are you using resources out there in the cloud that really Aren’t doing anything if you absorb them. And now you’re not using them. So again.

00:20:35.290 –> 00:20:50.720
Ben Rogers: looking at a application or a software set, they could look at my micro waste in an environment and allow me to eliminate some of that is a huge cost savings and one that I personally didn’t know the software did. I knew it did cost calculations. But to actually look at waste

00:20:50.760 –> 00:21:02.190
Ben Rogers: and unefficiency in the environment is pretty cool, man. So to me that’s a big win is, you know. How do I eliminate as much micro waste in native or going down to Nc. 2 as I can?

00:21:02.500 –> 00:21:11.030
Andy Whiteside: Yeah, that’s part of the Mars conversation, too. The goal is to eventually move everything into a hyperscaler. Well, as you just pointed out, you have a limited number of templates you could use there

00:21:11.040 –> 00:21:14.910
Andy Whiteside: it could be that you have to go with the bigger template which causes you to waste

00:21:15.020 –> 00:21:18.610
Andy Whiteside: excess capacity. Gyro. What did what it been? Get right.

00:21:18.710 –> 00:21:26.660
Jirah Cox: all of it. A 100% no spot on I mean, I train vent. So I have to say that right? So the the

00:21:26.780 –> 00:21:39.690
Jirah Cox: No. It’s a native functionality. We’ve had on-prem forever on e tenx Platforms right. I was evaluating vms helping you as the environment or infrastructure admin to be a good steward to show back to the business of

00:21:39.740 –> 00:21:50.950
Jirah Cox: hey is everything that your customers have requested being used right or identifying. Hey? This Vm. Is to has to which memory right or too much. CPU. It’s just never used it right. We look back over history and say.

00:21:50.960 –> 00:22:09.640
Jirah Cox: this is just not been getting put to use. Cpos is shared. Memory usually is dedicated to a Vm. So like that can be real waste if I give it to a Vm. And it’s sitting there idle. Nothing else can usually use it. There’s some sharing available right. But you know that’s on a per environment basis, and there’s some cause security and and cost governance concerns that that

00:22:09.640 –> 00:22:24.920
Andy Whiteside: brings in as well. So most people opt to say my memory is going to be dedicated. Therefore I want to waste as little as possible. Yeah, I think about this couple of ways. We got our legacy world of on-premise hardware where we’d buy, you know, twice as much memories with all we’re gonna need, because it only costs a little bit more.

00:22:24.920 –> 00:22:36.190
Andy Whiteside: And then you take that and apply that to the application. Servers like desktop servers all of a sudden it’s up and down, up and down. You could be using nothing right now, but you might need, you know, 18 gigs 5 min from now.

00:22:36.190 –> 00:22:46.720
Andy Whiteside: you know, being able to efficiently move those resources around, measure those resources, and and plan and and execute on those resources. It’s huge Harvey. What did a gyro and then get right.

00:22:46.930 –> 00:22:51.110
Harvey Green III: Only got it all right, of course. What other way would it be?

00:22:51.340 –> 00:22:53.170
Harvey Green III: I? I think

00:22:53.250 –> 00:23:00.540
Harvey Green III: you know you You hit on something very important before now before Cloud. It was always

00:23:00.570 –> 00:23:12.900
Harvey Green III: get as much as you can get, and you better use as much as you can get a 100% or close to 100 as much as you could for as long as you could. And now, if that’s your strategy in the cloud.

00:23:12.960 –> 00:23:20.890
Harvey Green III: you are going to spend all of your money and not have anything left.

00:23:21.120 –> 00:23:23.700
Jirah Cox: Yeah, I mean, we want to help. You know

00:23:23.720 –> 00:23:40.980
Jirah Cox: people that you know it’s been always been our thesis right that like, if you need more new tanks, of course, by morning. Tennis. That’s great. That’s like we’re in the business of selling more new tanks. We won’t. We want you to have a well justified reason to get more mechanics right like let’s prove that everything you already have is being used well right, and putting putting it to good purpose

00:23:41.080 –> 00:23:53.010
Jirah Cox: for the business, right like we’ve heard of this podcast right case came on and told us about how like with the new ultra dense Amd nodes right. They’re coaching customers to think about 3. V. Cpus right? It’s a very weird number.

00:23:53.430 –> 00:24:05.060
Jirah Cox: But how often do we see people just go from 2 to 4, because right, or because it’s a power of 2 without good data around that right? So like that ability to right size. I think you’re You’re spot on and you like Euc

00:24:05.310 –> 00:24:13.460
Jirah Cox: means yeah, we measure once, but then we multiply times a 1,000 right. So if we’re off by a little, we’re off by a 1,000 times a little, and we get some real waste there. So yeah.

00:24:13.630 –> 00:24:14.970
Jirah Cox: optimization matters.

00:24:15.790 –> 00:24:17.010
Andy Whiteside: So which are the

00:24:17.030 –> 00:24:24.050
Andy Whiteside: third section, what they call modules. Here it says: Private class, Private Cloud, total cost of ownership. What are they trying to cover there?

00:24:24.490 –> 00:24:41.240
Jirah Cox: Yeah, that kind of showback of like incorporating there’s not just technology involved here, right? Of course you buy hardware you’ve ported by. Software but you need humans to run it. You need power and cooling. You need, you know, to top rack ports to connect all of that. And and the Ncm tool for cost. Governance

00:24:41.240 –> 00:24:46.700
Jirah Cox: makes a really really good best guess, for, like you probably paid about this much for hardware, this much for software.

00:24:46.700 –> 00:25:05.380
Jirah Cox: and we’ll take some just straight up rough averages, for, like Ft. Costs, power, cooling costs, network port cost. But you can also tailor all of that to your environment. So if you have good numbers. Then plug in your numbers. If you don’t have any numbers, use our numbers right. They’re probably pretty directionally accurate, but either way you can help show that sort of like fully burdened cost

00:25:05.380 –> 00:25:08.560
Jirah Cox: that takes into account all of those things as well.

00:25:08.620 –> 00:25:16.720
Ben Rogers: The the yeah. This just blows my mind because I can’t tell you how many meetings I set in, where

00:25:17.100 –> 00:25:32.990
Ben Rogers: the sea levels really wanted to know how efficient the apart the department was doing. So As drivers was explaining this what I would probably do as an it owners, I would go. Okay, I’m gonna calculate what my department cost is based on our stats. I’m gonna go to Hr: I’m going to figure all this out.

00:25:32.990 –> 00:25:51.740
Ben Rogers: and then i’m going to do a comparison of what the national average is, because that’s what Newton’s is looking at, and hopefully I would be a little sharper, but these would be great conversations, for i’m running the department good. We’re good where we’re at. We’ll just keep going, or I need help. I need extra funding. I need these things.

00:25:51.740 –> 00:26:03.760
Ben Rogers: This is great to really give it leadership Where we at do we have what we need? Or do we need to add more? And am I as an it leader, doing a good job managing my environment?

00:26:03.900 –> 00:26:12.530
Jirah Cox: Right? That that’s a good point man like I remember there was a stat. This is really old. This is like, maybe 10 years old now that Google used to mention around having, like one

00:26:12.680 –> 00:26:25.790
Jirah Cox: server admin per 1,000 physical servers was a ratio. They tracked it’s probably denser now it’s probably. I don’t know one to 5,000, maybe, but but that’s a great point ben around like. Are we trending to beat that right? As our efficiency goes up.

00:26:25.850 –> 00:26:35.070
Jirah Cox: and we run a denser and tighter and hopefully more automated, more programmatic environment. Right? We should see that cost per vm. Hopefully trending down.

00:26:35.210 –> 00:26:35.850

00:26:36.290 –> 00:26:43.060
Andy Whiteside: So, Philip, I have to assume this module 3 part. The private cloud applies to what you were doing not that long ago.

00:26:43.230 –> 00:26:44.310
Andy Whiteside: How’s it going?

00:26:44.340 –> 00:27:01.120
Philip Sellers: Yeah, Absolutely. I mean, you know, we would have conversations with outside vendors, and and you know it was common to say, okay, let’s ship the sass, and and then the business wants to understand. Okay, Well, what are we paying today? What is that fully loaded number look like?

00:27:01.320 –> 00:27:20.120
Philip Sellers: Some of these metrics are really hard to quantify you. Your people cost oftentimes gets very opaque, really, quickly, you know there’s lots of different ways that you have to think about it. And and frankly, I mean, you know there’s a lot of other things that people don’t think about. It’s easy to

00:27:20.120 –> 00:27:36.490
Philip Sellers: to not take into account your floor space, or you know, do you do it? Based on the number of available rack units you have in your floor space and your co-locate. So figuring out how to quantify those and have a a serious conversation with your business partners.

00:27:36.520 –> 00:27:37.550
Philip Sellers: It’s tough.

00:27:37.970 –> 00:27:54.870
Philip Sellers: So, having a tool like this, where you don’t necessarily have to do all of that hard research, and it gives you a standard way of having that conversation, not just today, but on an ongoing basis, and my business partners, They didn’t care as much about

00:27:54.870 –> 00:28:13.180
Philip Sellers: the short term view of this. They wanted us to be tracking this sort of information over a long term journey, so that they can start to see and establish trends with us. And so those trends are really important for us to to be able to react and make decisions, to to mitigate a

00:28:13.180 –> 00:28:15.150
Philip Sellers: a direction that we didn’t want to go.

00:28:15.510 –> 00:28:16.230

00:28:16.660 –> 00:28:17.330
Andy Whiteside: yeah.

00:28:18.240 –> 00:28:25.690
Andy Whiteside: And the business needs there, right? They need you to come up with numbers, whether you told them straight from the industry, or you tweak them up one way the other.

00:28:25.740 –> 00:28:38.110
Andy Whiteside: Yeah, that’s that’s part of your job. I guess you know as former. It guys all of us that now work on the consulting side. I don’t know if we truly understood back then, how much we had to be financial guys

00:28:38.130 –> 00:28:41.430
Andy Whiteside: at the same time to justify all the money we were spending.

00:28:41.700 –> 00:28:58.610
Ben Rogers: I guess that finally explains how I got so good with excel. But well, well to the point, you know you would talk about like an expansion, and Harvey will know this. When Cns a bought Greensboro we had a data center, and we had extra capacity, but

00:28:58.780 –> 00:29:14.950
Ben Rogers: we were that first day we were like, oh, please, Lord, let our capacity hang in there. If I would have had something like this I could have said, hey, we can bring on another 500 users until we have to buy something else instead of me. Sitting there day, one hoping that our resources would hold.

00:29:15.210 –> 00:29:18.420
Ben Rogers: Luckily we were successful when we had enough capacity there, but

00:29:18.440 –> 00:29:37.080
Ben Rogers: there were several weeks I had to warn administration that, hey, we’re gonna bring this load on, but there might be some, you know, degradation of services as we come up, and luckily I didn’t have to have that, but it would have been nice to have something like this that I could have modeled and made the Co. Made the company feel more comfortable going forward instead of

00:29:37.080 –> 00:29:39.440
Ben Rogers: Well, we’re going to shoot. And let’s hope we’re right.

00:29:39.620 –> 00:29:48.690
Jirah Cox: Yeah, it’s. It’s not only the focus of this article, but yeah, we, we maybe find different blog posts right. The focus is on that whole actual feature forecasting right

00:29:48.690 –> 00:30:01.750
Jirah Cox: future forecasting. This is all retractor right? What have I already built? There’s a whole separate module that can do that sort of like. I need to go build x Y or Z for this business unit. Can it fit? Can it not fit? How much more do I need to make it fit stuff

00:30:02.630 –> 00:30:09.160
Andy Whiteside: as you guys are going through, that I just had this vision in my head of someone like Philip and without from then Gyra and others.

00:30:09.170 –> 00:30:19.500
Andy Whiteside: you know, doing a workshop in different towns where you bring people in and try to teach them how to use this tool, you know. Unlike Phillip, most, it guys, they just care how hard and fast can it work

00:30:19.910 –> 00:30:21.310
Andy Whiteside: You need? We need

00:30:21.660 –> 00:30:28.610
Andy Whiteside: financial guys or tools like this to help us make that part of the job easier.

00:30:29.680 –> 00:30:34.490
Andy Whiteside: So, Gyro, this last section says, Try it. Now tell us how we try it now.

00:30:34.540 –> 00:30:53.850
Jirah Cox: Yeah. So what’s been cool to watch? Right? You guys have heard about our test drive offering at the end of most of these episodes, but it keeps expanding right. So now the cool thing here is cost. Governance is now in the test drive environment for everybody to go kick the tires on so you can without bugging me or anybody from the comfort of your own home.

00:30:53.860 –> 00:31:06.540
Jirah Cox: Take a test drive. You get like a 4 h customized environment. Just for you. Try out the look and feel of the software, run. The reports get the come comfort level that it can do what you want it to do

00:31:06.590 –> 00:31:16.900
Jirah Cox: all right there. So eutenics.com slash test drive and then hit that cost governance trial. There, now, do I do that get a demo environment or my live environment.

00:31:17.020 –> 00:31:20.560
Jirah Cox: It’s a I think it’s a live, commonly nested environment.

00:31:20.610 –> 00:31:24.910
Andy Whiteside: Okay, but it’s not my production environment. It’s not your production environment. Correct? Awesome.

00:31:24.960 –> 00:31:28.650
Ben Rogers: I’m: going to brag about these tests, these tests

00:31:28.750 –> 00:31:34.350
Ben Rogers: that we do the Newtonic test area. I did 2 certifications very quickly.

00:31:34.440 –> 00:31:41.500
Ben Rogers: I mean a lot of my like beyond book studying came from these test environments. I fired these things off.

00:31:41.630 –> 00:31:52.010
Ben Rogers: Would, you know, take what they were telling me in the book and in the videos, and I would actually apply it to real world in these test environment. So to any engineer that really wants to learn the nuts and bolts of newutanics.

00:31:52.010 –> 00:32:13.820
Ben Rogers: These test drives are great, and I would I would welcome anybody to do it. You’re looking to, you know. Get certification on new tanks again. These test drives are really good to teach you. You know the nuts and bolts. I learned a lot about the health of our clusters, and how to go about evaluating that so, man, anytime you can jump in these test drives. I guarantee you’re going to come. Come out with a good technical nugget that you can use in the real world.

00:32:14.360 –> 00:32:28.370
Andy Whiteside: Yeah, it’s super powerful that mechanics has those. And to be frank, you’re just taking advantage of the modern world that you guys are most a big part of, and that is the ability to host these services as a service to give people a chance to kick the tires. It’s

00:32:28.390 –> 00:32:32.780
Andy Whiteside: it’s like if i’m Harvey and I’m trying to buy a new Tesla. If I could just go do it online.

00:32:33.110 –> 00:32:36.370
Andy Whiteside: how much easier would that be, Harvey? What’s wrong with Tesla. They haven’t figured that out yet.

00:32:36.710 –> 00:32:42.720
Harvey Green III: Well, you know, I think they’re still working on it. This whole website thing is new to them.

00:32:42.770 –> 00:32:49.680
Jirah Cox: The there’s even a whole like inception level made a story around.

00:32:49.710 –> 00:32:53.180
Jirah Cox: I was in a couple of conversations around re-hosting our test armed environment

00:32:53.350 –> 00:33:13.180
Jirah Cox: in a more cost-optimized area. So it it launched. It grew. It had different costs involved. But we even use the tool to right size. How we run the tool. It’s pretty cool. Yeah, it’s awesome. Hey, Jar, I got a question for you about this. I know a lot of our products that are tied very highly to our infrastructure and running, you know. Aos Hv.

00:33:13.260 –> 00:33:20.590
Ben Rogers: Do you have to be a new tennis customer? Have Newton’s infrastructure to take advantage of this? If I was all cloud. Would this be something I could look at?

00:33:20.890 –> 00:33:37.690
Jirah Cox: Yeah, 100. So this is actually delivered to the Sas service. It’s tied into your entitlement from Ncm. As well, so that can look at your on premise structure can look at your cloud only infrastructure or cloud native infrastructure, and the dashboard itself is is cloud hosted as a Sas service. So yeah, it’s a 100% relevant to cloud only customers.

00:33:37.800 –> 00:33:41.680
Andy Whiteside: Yeah. But i’m glad you brought that up. That’s I meant to bring that up earlier. Thank you.

00:33:43.280 –> 00:33:56.050
Andy Whiteside: All right, guys. Well, I appreciate you guys jumping back on Driver. I was starting to think that you didn’t want to talk to us anymore. I’m just joking. I know you’ve been busy hopefully. Your travels been fun and get to see part of the world. That’s part of the thing I love about our jobs right? We get to.

00:33:56.050 –> 00:34:12.570
Jirah Cox: Yeah, you see, and do a lot of things. Yeah, don’t call it. Come back, shout out to anybody tied you I made in in Europe, met him in Paris. That was fantastic. He literally came up with me and said, you’re gyro from the podcast. So I was like I’m. I’m like one fifth of the podcast. But I am from the podcast. Yes, that’s awesome.

00:34:12.570 –> 00:34:16.909
Jirah Cox: Look, we’re doing good things here. We need more listeners. We got a good listener base. We want more.

00:34:16.960 –> 00:34:25.280
Andy Whiteside: but what we do here is it’s good for me. I learn a time, and it’s good for the group. But it it’s the more people get listening to Better out.

00:34:25.550 –> 00:34:31.170
Andy Whiteside: You don’t have to be as integral customer. You take advantage of this we we want to educate the world as part of our go to market.

00:34:31.820 –> 00:34:32.860
Harvey Green III: Absolutely.

00:34:33.670 –> 00:34:37.850
Andy Whiteside: Well, gentlemen, with that we’ll tie it up, and hopefully we’ll do it again next week.

00:34:39.179 –> 00:34:40.900
Ben Rogers: It was good seeing everybody

00:34:41.510 –> 00:34:46.540
Jirah Cox: good to see you, too. Hey, Are you guys all going to dot next? I am

00:34:46.770 –> 00:34:50.050
Andy Whiteside: okay. Well, then, if you want, you can go on my suitcase.

00:34:50.469 –> 00:34:56.929
Ben Rogers: I was. I was hoping we would get there. But, man, that hadn’t quite got there yet.

00:34:56.980 –> 00:34:58.580
Andy Whiteside: Okay? Oh.

00:34:58.860 –> 00:35:02.300
Andy Whiteside: I’ve missed more than I made it to as an employee myself. Yeah.

00:35:02.520 –> 00:35:04.570
Andy Whiteside: alright. Guys, thanks. See you later next week.