151: The Citrix Session: Top 5 Citrix cost optimization tools you need to use

Dec 4, 2023

You probably use some Citrix features more than others depending on what your IT environment needs. With everything new we have added this year for better Operational and IT Efficiency, Workload and Device Flexibility, Security and Compliance, and Employee Experience Technology, you’ve probably adopted some new features too. But with so many new features, make sure you’re not missing out on existing ones that can make your environment more efficient and help you save money. These features work across cloud, hybrid, and on-premises solutions, so no matter where your environment is hosted you can take advantage of our cost saving solutions. If you’re interested in adopting any of these 5 features, make sure to check out our Citrix Product Documentation for more. 

Host: Andy Whiteside
Co-host: Bill Sutton
Guest: Monica Griesemer 

 

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Andy Whiteside: Number one and welcome to episode 1 51 of the Citrix session. I’m your host, Andy Whiteside to day is december fourth, 2024 I’ve got Bill Sutton and Monica Grishmer with me. Bill, how’s it going?

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Bill Sutton: Going? Well, Andy.

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Andy Whiteside: you? how’s how’s the arm?

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Bill Sutton: It’s still cast still in that

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Andy Whiteside: still, and it’s still wrapped, and I get it off on Wednesday, hopefully. And I’m sorry. What did you do? Tore attendant in my elbow

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Bill Sutton: moving furniture for my parents.

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Bill Sutton: So did you like try to move the whole couch by yourself, or did you just pick up like a end table? And there it went. No, I was holding the end of the couch, and we were moving it off a truck, and it slipped out of my brother’s hands, and I bore the brunt of the force on my left arm was flexed, holding the end of it.

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Bill Sutton: and I felt it pop when it

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Bill Sutton: when it did. It didn’t pop the whole tendon. It it was what they call a high grade partial tear, which means more than 50, so they have surgery.

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Andy Whiteside: Well, be better than better than the

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Andy Whiteside: maybe. Yeah. If it had popped entirely, that would have been a whole different ball game, probably.

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Monica Griesemer: Well, Monica’s with us, Monica. Any any pre holiday elements on your side? Yeah. Good to be here, I mean, I don’t have anything as exciting or painful as you know, popping attendant in my arm, but definitely had a festive weekend. Got to see Santa and Mrs. Claus this weekend. I didn’t know that they were rolling up to Central Illinois. Yet here they were. So

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Monica Griesemer: yes, very exciting, took my niece and nephews to to let Santa and Mrs. Klaus know what they wanted for Christmas. So we’re getting in the holiday spirit.

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Andy Whiteside: I am. My youngest one is 14, so I’m out of the Santa Claus phase, and I’ll tell you what, I am glad to be out of Santa Claus.

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Andy Whiteside: It’s cute for a while, but I did it for 2021 years. Some. Well, here’s the commercial time. So if you are a Citrix customer and you are.

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Andy Whiteside: and you’re not getting everything out of the platform, you can let us know, cause we know there’s an opportunity to get engaged and help you guys. I just was talking to a client a minute ago who’s dealing with one of the big, big, big consulting firms, and

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Andy Whiteside: I just had to subtly tell them there’s no way you’re getting the quality of service you need out of the citrix environment. If you’re dealing with one of those big, big players, you’re just.

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Andy Whiteside: you’re just another customer to those guys. And and we believe we can help you more

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Andy Whiteside: the blog Monica brought today to review is from October ninth. It’s the top 5 Citrix cost optimization tools. You need to use. Monica.

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Andy Whiteside: Well, let me start with Bill on this bill.

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Andy Whiteside: Pretty much given that Citrix has the best taught technology in this space. Correct? Yes, for sure. If that’s the case, why doesn’t everybody use it?

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Bill Sutton: That’s a really good question, I mean, you know, some of it is a perception of cost, a higher cost.

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Bill Sutton: You know, some of it is perception of higher complexity. But things have gotten really simple, a lot simpler than they were, especially the first one we’re gonna touch on, which we’ll get to in a minute.

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Andy Whiteside: Yeah, but it’s it’s mostly cost right. They don’t use it because it costs too much, but

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Andy Whiteside: you know they don’t even know they haven’t done the research on what their existing PC. Rollout cost.

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Bill Sutton: So how do they do? This is expensive. That’s a good point.

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Bill Sutton: but it and it kind of comes on the category to get what you pay for, too, at the same time.

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Monica Griesemer: So Monica does that line of conversation aligned with, why you put this blog together, or why did you put the blog together?

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Monica Griesemer: We do get that feedback right? That we are a premium product. We can do basically anything you want us to do. And with that can come some complexity and sometimes does come a higher price point. But the thing is

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Monica Griesemer: with the amount of capabilities that we offer, and with the optimizations that we offer, the value we’ve done, loads and loads of value research and the actual cost actually ends up being lower than having a bunch of disparate products to deploy your environment. And we have cost optimization tools to help you

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Monica Griesemer: with. The cloud consumption costs not just, you know. The upfront cost. You might have and might see, but there are ongoing intangible and tangible costs that we want to help with. So some of you listening today might know of some or all of these tools. But there’s a lot of folks out there as we cover

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Monica Griesemer: the 5 tools that we’re going to talk about today, or just the capabilities that are built into the product, that it’s news to people, even though I know you know the 3 of us are are no strangers to talking about all of these items on this list. Some of these might be news and just getting you thinking of ways that you can optimize your environments and optimize the technology you already have. There’s there’s plenty of things

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Andy Whiteside: and that optimization conversation that I don’t know about Citrix, and I’m involved in it a lot.

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Monica Griesemer: Alright, so maybe just cover this first paragraph here. I think we’ve kind of covered some of it, maybe. But can you just kind of recap what you’re covering? Yeah, just kind of teeing up the the capabilities. I mean, there’s a ton, a ton, a ton of capabilities that we consistently roll out. I mean, if you go back to the last 3 podcasts we did together. It was just talking about the capabilities that Citrix rolled out in.

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Monica Griesemer: So we know that. And sometimes you, you miss some along the way. But we have features across cloud, hybrid and on-premises, solutions that can help optimize costs so wanted to tee up to that.

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Monica Griesemer: All of these capabilities aren’t just specific to cloud or on prem. It’s really for our hybrid folks, right?

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Andy Whiteside: Alright. So the first one is and Bill was accept. So, Bill.

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Andy Whiteside: you kind of foreshadowed this one, the first one number one, Citrix provisioning service, provisioning and machine creation services, though why did you kinda jump ahead and want to talk about that one a little bit. What does that mean? That that’s one of the biggies, I mean, because this is helping you control

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Bill Sutton: the cost, the costs and deployment of actual machine objects. Whether it’s in a cloud or on premises. And obviously Citrix provisioning services has a long history at Citrix. I was involved with it before it was even acquired with them by them. And saw the value of it, you know, back then it was a bit more complex than it is now, and what they’ve tweaked a lot of things to it and making it made it very, very efficient. It’s not. It’s not appropriate for every situation

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Bill Sutton: but particularly for the larger deployments and those where there’s a very desire for very, very quick turnaround time of updates and and deployments and then it came out guess around the Vdi timeframe with machine creation services which is essentially a Vm Slash storage construct

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Bill Sutton: that creates temporary copies of the Vms. And really, these things are really designed to help you optimize the delivery of the of the workloads which, along with that comes the optimization of the cost of those workloads, especially in public clouds.

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Andy Whiteside: Does does anyone on the market have something like provisioning services period? Not that I know of. Certainly. Machine creation services. They do. But not Pdfs, yeah, I mean, that alone could be the justification for going to Citro Monica, you trying to cover in this one?

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Monica Griesemer: Yeah, no, I think. Bill stole my thunder there, very, very glad to have him do so.

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Monica Griesemer: This is teeing up provisioning services, you might know as as Pvs. And that is, as you were saying, the proprietary kind of bread and butter of what Citrix has done for years now, and people think of this as just an on premises, provisioning, just making on premises images. But we’ve actually added this to a number of cloud providers. I know we have it for Google.

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Monica Griesemer: I know we’ve talked about it before I’m losing track, but you can do this across your cloud and on premises environments for a number of scenarios. And then Mcs is kind of where we started when we started rolling into the cloud. That machine creation services provisioning in the cloud. And it’s still obviously there today. It just depends on on the used case and

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Monica Griesemer: what your environment will do better with.

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Monica Griesemer: Also Mcs, plays really nicely into power management and auto scale, which we will get into later. And there’s

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Monica Griesemer: tools built into both Pvs and Mcs that you can leverage today to optimize costs. So if you’re just doing kind of more outdated manual machine creation processes, it’s definitely worth looking into these provisioning services to see if you can automate and streamline those processes for yourself.

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Andy Whiteside: Yet without doubt this is one of the most effective efficiency gainers in our space, and having both these options really proves to be valuable.

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Andy Whiteside: Hybrid and multi-cloud

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Andy Whiteside: deployments. Monica. Yeah, this might seem basic right. I jumped into the call, saying.

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Monica Griesemer: this is across hybrid and multi cloud, and the fact that I’m having a tool on the list as hybrid and multi cloud might seem like a bit of a cop out. But I would.

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Monica Griesemer: I’m going to, you know. Say that

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Monica Griesemer: the fact of having your environment be hybrid and be able to say burst to the cloud for disaster. Recovery scenarios is a huge deal for optimizing costs. The bigger thing here, too, that I wanna press on is using the environments you already have that on premises infrastructure that you’ve already invested in, and then also leveraging

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Monica Griesemer: hybrid, leveraging the cloud to be able to expand

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Monica Griesemer: and not throwing away all of your infrastructure that you’ve already invested in. So not only are we helping with device, life cycle, right? The things you know of, Citrix, but helping with your infrastructure life cycle as well. So that’s a big chunk that I wanted to get into. But at its basis

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Monica Griesemer: it’s also talking about helping you manage private and public clouds and on purposes infrastructure and a single control plane.

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Monica Griesemer: So not only is it the tactical use, the environment that you have today, but also the value of

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Monica Griesemer: not having to go to multiple management consoles and saving time by managing it all from one place. So I know there’s a lot wrapped in here. But that’s why we wanted to call it out as a specific tool. Yeah.

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Andy Whiteside: yeah, I think part of that for me always, always, always is starting with the idea that when people say cloud, they typically mean public cloud. But if you stop and get them to

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Andy Whiteside: to understand the different types of cloud, including your own data center that are out there. This ability of citrix to embrace not only the management layer being in wherever you want it to be, but also the actual compute being in all the different places that that alone is a win for the customer who doesn’t get locked into just a public cloud strategy which in a lot of cases, especially for desktop workloads, is extremely expensive. Long term Bill, your thoughts.

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Bill Sutton: Yeah, I mean. This is obviously a a key benefit of something like Citrix. And that is the

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Bill Sutton: to like, Monica said, allowing the customer to continue to leverage an on premises, private cloud, if you will. Environment, we have a lot of projects where we’re helping a customer move from the on premises. Version of Citrix, virtual apps and desktop to citrix as. And invariably during the course of the design process for that where they’re they’re resource location or their workloads running on premises. We typically find that they’ll start asking questions about, could we do? Dr. In the cloud?

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Bill Sutton: Well, yes, Mr. Custom, you can. Well, how involved is that I don’t. I don’t really wanna have to set up a bunch of infrastructure in the cloud. We have to pay for that. It’s really pretty straightforward. Couple of cloud connectors, and a workload and just connected into your to the control plane, which is centralized and you’re you’re largely off and running you, you may be able to leverage the images you have on premises depending on what they’re running in. But the point is that Citrix gives you the flexibility to be able to leverage

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Bill Sutton: the hyperscalers are the various clouds, whether you’re talking about azure or aws, or Gcp. For

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Bill Sutton: for your primary workloads or secondary workloads, or or all the above, and that flexibility is key, especially when customers start talking about business, continuity and and disaster recovery, or they want to go all in in the cloud. It’s just having that flexibility is is key to making the, you know, demonstrating the value of the solution. And and Bill double down that Dr. Business continuity conversations. I

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Andy Whiteside: almost never have a customer that doesn’t

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Andy Whiteside: see this capability as being a value. Add for that conversation versus

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Bill Sutton: you know the legacy way they’re doing it, which is basically rebuilding everything in a second environment which makes sense at this point exactly. And that’s the way they used to do it, and that’s the mindset for some customers that aren’t that versed well versed on on cloud concepts and being able to explain to them that, hey? No, you don’t have to do all you don’t have to have all that storage and and compute, and all those other things in the other data center and have and multiple control planes. You can do it with one and just define a resource location in a cloud and be done with it.

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Andy Whiteside: I mean, it’s not quite that simple. There’s still some infrastructure pieces like profiles and things you have to build, but nothing like it was back in the day and the financial win that goes along with that is just easily justifiable.

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Monica Griesemer: I also wanna throw in there. I know you both were bringing up the management plane and the compute right? You think of the compute on the big hyperscalers putting your workloads into those hyperscalers also from the Citrix side, from the alliances side as well. We are. We work really closely with Google Aws and azure, obviously.

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Monica Griesemer: And if you have commit dollars with those vendors, maybe you have a specific vendor, that of choice, then you can actually use in many, many cases, your commit dollars with those vendors to buy Citrix licensing as well and to work more closely together. So optimize some of that commitment that you already have to get those citrix licenses and implement it. So that’s kind of a plug for for our alliances and and the strength of it.

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Monica Griesemer: and being able to work with those big players and all of us work together to get you the best deals and put your infrastructure where you want to put it.

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Monica Griesemer: Alright. Moving on. The next one is number 3 auto scale, Monica. Just a quick refresh on auto scale is, and how it becomes something that the cost justifies. You know, buying Citrix and using Citrix absolutely. I think auto scale is probably the feature that we say first, when talk about cost optimization, it’s probably the most tangible thing that we can showcase from a

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Monica Griesemer: inside of the console. So what autoscale does is it is schedule based scaling and or load based scaling for your resources?

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Monica Griesemer: So you can. And this is a cloud based feature that we’ve actually also brought to on Prem, so you can either set distinct times for your machines to power on and off. Maybe you’ve got workers doing 9 to 5. So that’s a schedule based scaling. But something that really sets our auto scale capabilities apart are those load based scaling. So that’s for your unpredictable workloads. You can set a buffer

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Monica Griesemer: of how many workloads or how many machines you want running to be able to

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Monica Griesemer: have your users jump on, and maybe there’s a a peak that you weren’t aware of. But there’s always a buffer at the front to make sure enough, machines are running for your users at any given time. But if there is a lull, then your machines power down, and it’s kind of one of those automagic things that happens inside of the Citrix console.

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Monica Griesemer: and it shows you tangibly how much money auto scale itself is saying, saving you. It is built into your editions of Citrix, if you’re not using it today, I highly recommend

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Bill Sutton: Bill. You have working examples of this. Yeah, we’ve got a number of customers that are obviously lever leveraging this. This is a key feature, particularly when you’re dealing with with cloud, but also with on premises. This is, really an extension or expansion, I guess, of the old power management concepts that work in the older versions. And giving you given the giving you the ability to spin up and spin down machines based on various criteria. So we have a lot of customers that are using this. And one thing that

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Bill Sutton: I think this one may have predated. This article may have predated Monica, one that we talked about

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Bill Sutton: couple of weeks ago about the whole concept of suspend and resume you couple that in capabilities. And you’ve got a a whole different ball game here now, where, instead of powering off, you can suspend a machine leveraging, leveraging the auto scale algorithms and then when that machine comes back much more quickly than it would if it was starting from scratch, you’re right back where you were without having it go through a reboot.

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Andy Whiteside: And guys, I you know more than I do about this is is the citrix’s ability. Auto scale feature set greater than the others. I know a lot of people kind of follow suit here, but the ability to do it number one on Prem as well as in the cloud. That’s a game changer so the feature set within the Citrix world you, how does that stack up?

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Andy Whiteside: Talked about the suspend one from a minute ago. That’s something others aren’t doing at this point.

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Monica Griesemer: I can’t do a one. V. One comparison. I know that we have been doing this for years, and there’s always like at quarter after quarter there’s auto scale features. So yes, I know other organizations are coming out with similar capabilities. But just even in this list alone we’ve got things like

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Monica Griesemer: idle time, disconnect time, power off, delay, force, log off and cost of a virtual machine per hour, features so that you can optimize and visualize those cost differences. So I think that really sets us apart to the the visualization and being able to say, Hey, here’s our. Here’s how much money we’ve saved by using this. But

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Bill Sutton: I don’t know a one. V. One comparison, Bill. I don’t know if you have any more information there. Yeah, you know, there are other vendors, obviously that do this and some do it reasonably well. You know the base capabilities you get in most of the platforms, whether they’re on premises or hyperscaler oriented.

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Bill Sutton: Don’t offer near the the features that this offers. The things like like you said earlier load based scaling where you can scale up. You know, individual multi user machine and then spin up additional machines as the load increases, a lot of the the base algorithms that you get from some of these other platforms don’t include any of that functionality. You’ve got to buy an add on from the vendor, or or

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Bill Sutton: you should invest in something like Citrix to help you accomplish those objectives.

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Andy Whiteside: So number 4 on the list is a workspace environment management which a lot of people refer to as whim all the time. Monica, just a quick recap of what whim is and how that’s a cost saving opportunity.

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Monica Griesemer: Yeah, when can help your management of your environment kind of in a number of ways I like, how we open this section of based on a web engineer. Study. It can help your server scalability by up to 70, which is amazing in and of it of itself.

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Monica Griesemer: and it helps you. So take control of your consumption and spending, but also improve end-user experience. So it helps the server scalability by optimizing things like RAM CPU and Iops inside of of the environment. But also it can do things like reduce log on times.

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Monica Griesemer: So this is something

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Monica Griesemer: that is a like helping give productive time back to your users is a cost optimization tool as well. If users are sitting there waiting for their citrix to load, saying, My Citrix is slow all of this. That’s a productivity time suck. So, bringing that back to your users and giving them that time, reducing that log on time and getting them time to value is a huge benefit as well. So when can do

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Monica Griesemer: a ton of optimizations? And there are probably more tools than I can even cover today.

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Bill Sutton: In one case. Obviously the ability to put policies in place, leveraging whim to optimize these, the CPU spike and memory consumption obviously, is where the scalability, help and improve scalability. But beyond that, in conjunction with profile management, capabilities that are built that Citrix builds into the platform.

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Bill Sutton: They can, like, Monica said, reduced log on times as well. We we find that in most projects where we bring this up, the customer wants it often. It’s just for the CPU and memory optimization, functionality and features which helps them improve density.

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Bill Sutton: And then what happens is it’s kind of like one of those Trojan horses you put it in there, for one thing, and then it ends up being used to do profile management. And then maybe it’s used to, you know, customize a desktop. There’s so many other pieces and parts of whim that can optimize the the users environment. That’s why it’s called an environment manager. That that go well beyond just CPU and memory. But CPU and memory are often where we get

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Andy Whiteside: the platform in to help improve density. It’s a it’s a real solid platform that that they’ve improved significantly over the years. Yeah, virtual in the cloud virtual in your data center virtual and somebody’s data center like ours. If you’re not taking advantage of that ability to optimize CPU and RAM. I Ops, then you’re just wasting technology.

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Monica Griesemer: Also throw out there. I think we talked about on our last podcast we have improved, the management console. So not only the functionality, but the look and feel of the console itself.

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Monica Griesemer: And we have brought that capability, I think, in tech Preview right now to on premises as well. So you might be like, Okay, the look and feel. But the thing is with something like when that can do as much as what we were just rattling off in the last couple of minutes.

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Monica Griesemer: having a great user interface where you can find where the optimizations are is a big deal. So we have really improved that. And then, with the web based, interface, our awesome teams that do in product messaging can do pop ups and kind of help guide you where to get these optimizations done. And you know our partners likes integra can help you click around on the console as well. But just having that improved interface as well. I’m hoping we’ll get

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Monica Griesemer: a lot more folks using this to its full potential.

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Yeah.

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Andy Whiteside: alright. Last one, the list, and probably probably I’m gonna be most excited not. The other ones aren’t great. And that’s around service now, and integrating with the Itsm adapter. Monica. Help us understand briefly what this is and where the financial benefits kick in.

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Monica Griesemer: Absolutely. Yeah. I just smiled, Andy, because I knew you always loved bringing up the Itsm adapter on calls. So I knew this would be a big one for you, for those of you that aren’t familiar. Our Itsm adapter for service now is a specific tool that integrates directly with service. Now, which I’d say

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Monica Griesemer: the vast majority of our enterprise. Customers are leveraging for help desks.

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Andy Whiteside: They’re leveraging it for help, desk ticketing systems. But for a lot of that’s all they’re doing with this powerful platform. Go ahead.

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Monica Griesemer: Okay? No. I at its at its core. The Itsm adapter

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Monica Griesemer: helps integrate with citrix workloads and service. Now so helps integrate tickets to be able to reset sessions, to be able to manage incidents within

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Monica Griesemer: your Citrix environment and to allow users to self serve. That’s a huge deal here. If a user session is

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Monica Griesemer: idling or not working.

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Monica Griesemer: I’m sure all helped us are familiar with them getting a call, saying, Hey, this isn’t working, that’s not working.

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Monica Griesemer: being able to self serve and have the Itsm adapter, have intelligent capabilities to do it directly within service now, and a user doesn’t have to contact the help desk at all saves huge amounts of time in a study here. There’s a healthcare provider

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Monica Griesemer: that shows that manual resets could take up to 15 min for these doctors to be resolved with. You know, the ticketing system, and having to get a hold of help desk, but with the its and the doctor users can now perform a self service reset and 30 s. That’s huge, right. Not only for time is money in the organization, but

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Monica Griesemer: in a healthcare organization. Time is literally life or death. So that is a huge deal to be able to optimize with this. But, Andy, I’ll stop talking so you can. You can talk all about the its of adapter. Anything I missed.

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Andy Whiteside: I’ll I’ll just add to it, and we would love to help you do that, and if you have service. Now you have Citrix, and you haven’t integrated the 2 together. You’re you’re you’re wasting your money. There’s so much opportunity, Bill. Let’s hear from you on your thoughts around the Itsm adapter. Yeah, obviously, the capabilities of this, like Monica was alluding to or indicating relative to help desk calls is is

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Bill Sutton: obviously very important and and beneficial. But you know some of the other things that this does is the ability to help provision on board users to the environment off board users from the environment delete idle machines or machines that aren’t being used anymore. You know, based on rules to help optimize costs. So there’s so much goodness in this tool. That that allows a company to leverage the leverage service. Now to integrate with Citrix and make a lot of decisions that ordinarily would be made.

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Bill Sutton: you know, by help, desk, person, or a maybe even a level 2 person with, with respect to removing machines and things of that nature, but the certainly the feature of being able to submit a help desk ticket and get it resolved quickly. Maybe via a chat bot or something like that is critical, especially in a healthcare environment.

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Andy Whiteside: Yeah, time is money. It’s critical to save lives. And also time is money, and that healthcare stuff cost all of us a lot of money

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Andy Whiteside: Bill work. You’re an a you’re an active participant in the healthcare thing with the arm. Monica. Just wrap it up for us if you would. Absolutely. So

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Monica Griesemer: we we just went through the the top 5 features for cost savings. I hope that you all kind of got new insight, or maybe a new thought on items you can use within your environments at the bottom of this blog. Here we have a white paper that encapsulates everything that we talked about today. But also something awesome is our tech brief. So our tech zone is getting better and better. We have a great team behind it, adding

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Monica Griesemer: not only the product documentation of Hey, here’s how to implement this thing, but more of the value of what our features bring. So the tech brief actually goes line by line through even more optimization tools for cost than what we probably have time to cover in a number of these podcasts.

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Monica Griesemer: But I’m sure the the type marketing folks, gentlemen, might be able to come on and talk more about the brief. But it discusses line by line, things in auto scale, things in whim, hdx features director that can help with cost optimization across your environment. So there’s more capabilities out there that I’m sure

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Monica Griesemer: anyone is aware of, or that you’re using in your environment. So I just

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Monica Griesemer: plug. Please please check it out and please look at what new features you can incorporate today to help save you money.

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Andy Whiteside: And Bill, what? What cost saving factor would you put on happy users.

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Bill Sutton: all of them. But all of them but obviously happy users. It’s gonna come down to optimization of the workload improving log on times, improving response times and all of that goes back to a lot of these factors, you know. Certainly. When is one is a big one of those? And then, of course, when you look at something like the Ips of adapter and the ability to resolve issues much more quickly. That’s key. But I think

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Bill Sutton: when you’re talking about the end user. Their user experience is key decks. The user experience is key for for them. And so that that’s where I would. That’s where I would focus where we do focus now, when we’re doing these things is to make is to optimize it. So the end user experience is as solid as possible. I don’t. I don’t remember which credit card buzz, but at some point in the not too distant past there was a credit card commercial, where, at the end of the day, you know.

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Andy Whiteside: Happy User, whatever it was, you know, that’s

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Andy Whiteside: priceless. Well, I don’t remember what it was. It was priceless mastercard. Yeah. So so all this call saving very important for justifying. But the other day. why, you know, don’t put a solution in front of your users that’s gonna make them unhappy. Cause, no matter. Cost savings is, gonna say, is, gonna be worth. Just find that.

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Andy Whiteside: Well, guys, I appreciate it. And I look forward to talking to you a couple more times before before the holidays, and we all check out and go take a nap.

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Monica Griesemer: Yeah, nap sounds good, but always a pleasure talking to you both. Thanks for having me on.