102: The Citrix Session: Help mitigate your organization’s cybersecurity risks – Part 2

Mar 5, 2022

Cybersecurity can often seem to present impossible challenges as organizations strive to repel attack attempts. But, really, cybersecurity’s is about risk management — layering on controls to reduce risk to an acceptable level.

Cybersecurity risk management requires a multi-faceted approach, and organizations should evaluate risk and choose the appropriate option(s) to address it. After a thorough risk assessment, the organization can choose to:

  • Accept the risk: Organizations can acknowledge the risk and choose not to resolve, transfer, or mitigate it if it is not feasible.
  • Avoid or eliminate the risk: This option may involve elimination of the risky service or feature to remove the risk from the equation.
  • Mitigate the risk: This option is where technical and administrative controls are implemented to reduce the likelihood or impact of risk.
  • Transfer the risk: This option assigns or moves the risk to a third-party via cyber liability insurance.

Host: Andy Whiteside
Co-host: Bill Sutton
Co-host: Ben Rogers

WEBVTT

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Andy Whiteside: Everyone welcome to episode 102 of the citric session, this is a part two of a two part series where we’re reviewing Florian blog about cybersecurity and where citrix plays in that I posted number one earlier today on linkedin and social media other places, and I just love the.

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Andy Whiteside: i’d love to be able to tell people, especially security people that citrix is a security company it’s a security play has been forever.

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Andy Whiteside: When you get a real hardcore security guy though argue with you.

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Andy Whiteside: i’m like man, if I can remotely have you access something but don’t allow you to print that’s super awesome and that’s a security play as far as i’m concerned we don’t we don’t have to agree we just have to respect each other’s opinion about that been.

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Andy Whiteside: In Rogers is with us from citrix and whether their bills and, of course, with its bills our director services has integrity on our chit chatting before this we’re gonna have to call him he’s got a lot going on.

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Bill Sutton: there’s a lot going on for sure yeah.

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Andy Whiteside: been Rogers is with us been Rogers is today, I guess, tomorrow, officially, a century sales engineer, and then then moving on to somewhere else, after that been clocks winding down.

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Ben Rogers: yeah man little bit bittersweet but i’m looking forward to my new adventure and hopefully i’ll be able to announce that here in a couple of days, and like I said to the crowd man, hopefully i’ll be back in this type of circles porting some other products that you guys sell.

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Andy Whiteside: Or you um you do a good job of keeping yourself connected and relevant in terms of the technology, especially our space i’ve.

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Andy Whiteside: got a young kid he’s a junior not my son, but friend of mine son junior at North Carolina state is computer science major.

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Andy Whiteside: And I was trying to explain in this morning, what his future could look like if he were to join us.

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Andy Whiteside: At the same time i’m trying to get him not to join us and go work for a you know big technology firm with a bunch of young people working for where he gets that energy in that vibe for a couple years.

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Andy Whiteside: goes and sees what’s out there in the world and then come work with us at some point, because vitamin A conversation about connections and relevance that starts early these days.

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Ben Rogers: yeah I mean I 100% believe that is a good time to be in technology, we mean if you’ve looked at technology over the 30 years you’ve seen some massive paradigm shift Internet virtualization.

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Ben Rogers: And I think cloud is right we’re right at the beginning of that cloud paradigm shift where if you’re in this industry you’ve got plenty to.

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Ben Rogers: Do plenty of work, just like you guys said y’all need to clone yourself it’s a good industry to be in and so man i’m very proud that i’ve landed here and.

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Ben Rogers: very proud that i’ve been able to make a you know for rushing career and hopefully the last 1520 years but it’s a good time to be in tech, in my opinion, but.

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Andy Whiteside: But then, if you were a computer science major coming out of a you know decent major university, would you want to go somewhere and help people solve business challenges with technology or would you want to go somewhere and invent technology.

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Ben Rogers: Who, I mean personally I would want to solve problems because that’s what i’ve done for 30 years and and that’s where my mind is geared to I don’t go into meetings thinking of what technology can I implement I go into.

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Ben Rogers: What problem Do I need to solve, and how can I bring technology to solve that problem.

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Ben Rogers: As a young person that would be wild and need to go work for an innovative company like citrix or you know some of the other players out there Boston dynamics would be one that I think would be.

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Ben Rogers: awesome to work for with the robot robotic and Ai technology man it’d be a hard call i’d have to see what opportunities are and.

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Ben Rogers: Boston dynamics or somebody like that was knocking at my door and be hard not to go that direction, but I think any route you go, I will say one thing to people.

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Ben Rogers: Sales is where you get a whole lot of attention and a lot of interaction and get to see a lot of different things and i’m not gonna lie.

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Ben Rogers: You can make a good bit of money, so if somebody you know, wants to be in technology, but doesn’t want to be turned into gears but still was to make quite a good living man going into sales and consulting is definitely a way to get.

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Andy Whiteside: A lot to respond to that bill chime in real quick before I just.

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Bill Sutton: it’s no I think you know.

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Bill Sutton: Given what the given the choice, I am not sure which way I would go to be honest, and they would depend but.

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Bill Sutton: You know, being a young person coming out of college with computer science degree I probably lend myself more towards the creation.

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Bill Sutton: If I were a program you know if I were a coder type person or inclined towards coding.

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Bill Sutton: Then I you know, maybe a startup or a small company, but but definitely I would want to be in an environment that was like with like minded folks To start with, and kind of get your feet wet and then decide what you want to do after a couple of years, or three.

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Andy Whiteside: So I didn’t ask the question right, but before I re asked a question or restate it and then answer my own question.

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Andy Whiteside: i’ll just tell been I told you so right because Ben Ben was a CEO I don’t get into sales and consulting and you won’t believe how.

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Andy Whiteside: much fun, that is, and he’s taking it on camera he knows I was right.

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Andy Whiteside: And I found that out myself to our way I was 35 years old, before I got into true sales consulting and.

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Andy Whiteside: I walked in my first day at citrix as a sales engineer, and it was sales kickoff and everybody was having a great time like man i’ve been i’ve been lost in the data Center all these years i’ve missed it a lot of fun on this that side of the fence.

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Bill Sutton: Imagine, being an accountant for 13 years before you.

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Bill Sutton: describe it.

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Ben Rogers: Sir, well, one of the thing that this side of the fence gives you that I didn’t get when I was you know director of it is the NSA there were lots of challenges there don’t.

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Ben Rogers: Know i’m not trying to downplay that but man, you see different scenarios every day, I mean I get up in the morning, I look at my.

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Ben Rogers: Calendar I could be dealing with finance I could be dealing manufacturing, I can be dealing with health care.

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Ben Rogers: And even those zeros and ones and the infrastructure somewhat the same and all those verticals they’re still different challenges man, this morning I was on with a healthcare client talk about how to get topaz.

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Ben Rogers: Signature pad to work within clients i’ll be on the call this afternoon talking to a bank about how to do some wire transfers and said.

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Ben Rogers: You really do get to see a lot of different scenarios and business problems when you’re on the sales consulting side So yes, Andy you told me many years ago I should make the.

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Ben Rogers: Make and I I ignored you for 10 years but i’m glad I finally listened to you and i’m super excited i’ve made the switch and look forward to the next 10 to 15 years sitting in these roles.

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Andy Whiteside: yeah too much personality to be running it shop every day and too much passion hey let me ask my question slightly different though and i’ll move on i’m setting up the talking about the security stuff again I promise.

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Andy Whiteside: it’s really not a computer science kid go out and invent something okay great.

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Andy Whiteside: or it’s be a computer science or computer engineer or management information systems consultant and come out to real world business challenges.

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Andy Whiteside: and solve problems with technologies that other people invented you’re just knowledgeable enough to to RT FM read the freakin manual.

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Andy Whiteside: or watch the YouTube video or what have you and go implement that and solve business challenges.

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Andy Whiteside: I think what really makes us tick the folks on this call is taking technologies that we have vision of and going to help people solve those and honestly to ben’s point you can send the cube all day and code.

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Andy Whiteside: But if you go out and solve business challenges you’re helping businesses save and make money that’s where you make money.

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yeah.

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Ben Rogers: People are buying technology for technology, people are buying technology to solve a problem right.

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Ben Rogers: And I think we forget that sometimes as technologists we get so wrapped up around how the gears are turned and how they work that we forget that this has got to be applied to a business process.

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Ben Rogers: That helps them become more efficient and make more money and that’s really the end game is fix my problem, allow me to be profitable if technology solves that that’s fine if human solves it that’s fine just fix it.

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Andy Whiteside: yeah hey Ben I probably did this for you you’ll be able to answer easily if I did, was it called an application.

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Ben Rogers: Why is it called an application because you’re applying business functions to solve a business problem.

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Andy Whiteside: you’re applying software to a challenge of business channels more than likely think about you know Lotus 123 Lotus notes all that stuff in the very beginning excel when they evolved.

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Andy Whiteside: that’s all they were doing, they were too many people used to have pen and paper and ledger’s imagine how painful or bill when, though, I think.

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Bill Sutton: Oh yeah oh yeah I mean back in the day when we go to do an audit, we take a trial balance by hand.

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Bill Sutton: As soon as we got our hands on Lotus.

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Bill Sutton: 123 boy things change you don’t have to use a calculator nearly as much.

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Andy Whiteside: It was.

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Bill Sutton: It was a sea change when we got Lotus 123 we figured out how to have formulas work and we got that thing, so that we can just plug the numbers in, and it would fit in crossfit for us it was a huge time saver.

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Ben Rogers: Like about electronic medical records.

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Bill Sutton: Oh, my gosh.

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Bill Sutton: Huge time saver.

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The.

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Andy Whiteside: Universal secure electronic medical record, so I don’t have to fill out this stupid forms anymore.

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Ben Rogers: yeah like.

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Ben Rogers: But like for healthcare and man all my health care administrators had been around for a while appreciate this doctors used to take medical records physically in their hands and put them in their cars.

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Ben Rogers: take them over to the hospital, so you would have records that would be missing and you would be like, I have no idea.

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Ben Rogers: Where they are where they could be, and then a doctor cleans his car six months later, like oh look, I found john doe’s record.

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Ben Rogers: The implementation of electronic medical records of what that’s done for securing patient medical records medical records being in a single place that can be viewed anywhere that’s been a big paradigm shift.

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Ben Rogers: It was technology that did it, but the business problem was we got to secure these records, we got to make sure they stay in control of the healthcare entity that owns them and that’s what Mr done yeah well let’s.

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Andy Whiteside: let’s use that to talk about part two of this blog, and that is citrix as a trusted partner platform that you, Mr organization have chose to implement is helping you solve more challenges than just remote virtualize using that APP.

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Andy Whiteside: And some of those challenges, whether you know it or not, I related security and risk so i’ll just go back through the four things that Florian points out in his blog.

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Andy Whiteside: Accept the risk avoid or eliminate the risk that would be great if we can all do that but that’s not real mitigate the risk or transfer the risk.

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Andy Whiteside: You as an organization or doing some part of part of all that, when it comes to your it and then what we’ve been talking about in Part One

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Andy Whiteside: Where we covered me run through these we covered multifactor we covered in point detection response be covered Sim tools we covered privileged access we covered patching.

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Andy Whiteside: We covered backups mean something is old and is boring as backups is extremely important.

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Andy Whiteside: And now we’re going to cover some more things around how citrix as a platform as a trusted partner, and all this for the customer and the partner as INTEGRA in this case.

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Andy Whiteside: gives you the ability to answer those cyber security challenges and you might not even know you’re doing it in May, those cases.

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Andy Whiteside: The first we’re going to talk about as part two, here is a remove end of life and end up support.

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Andy Whiteside: devices so Lol and ios devices and software, we got a project right now going into detail bill, you can chime in a little bit I think they’ve got 2008 2012 servers and.

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Andy Whiteside: Then we walked into it eyes, we didn’t we didn’t know that was gonna be the case, we just assumed it wasn’t they’ve got a problem we’ve got to help them solve it.

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Andy Whiteside: As a lot of the live stuff out there still.

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Bill Sutton: yeah we had one.

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Bill Sutton: We have one right now that you may or may not be aware of where we’ve we’ve the customers running.

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Bill Sutton: And you’re going to you’re going to love this version four or five of citrix and version six out of citrix.

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Bill Sutton: still running in production running on 2003 servers 2008 or two servers you know, none of that supported so you know, we need to get them moved up but.

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Bill Sutton: Obviously the applications are a big part of that, and whether they’re supported, and you know that that’s what the project is all about, but we still see a lot of this stuff out there on occasion anyways.

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Andy Whiteside: it’s still out there.

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yeah.

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Andy Whiteside: And then the question for like that organization is they want to do just Weber Phi all their applications and eventually they’ll get there i’m sure.

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Andy Whiteside: And then, a lot of people I hear this every week oh I don’t need citrix anymore like well, you must not know what citrus does today, then, if you make that statement.

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Andy Whiteside: Mostly applications I access on a daily basis or SAS applications, but I still log into my citrix workspace to get to one because I get single identity multifactor single sign on and analytics all the things that make me still want to use citrix but I don’t publish a lot of Apps.

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Ben Rogers: yeah you also retain ownership that man that’s one of the things I talked to a lot of customers about when they start talking about going SAS is.

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Ben Rogers: When you go SAS is great, but you do from an administrative since lose some ownership.

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Ben Rogers: I mean you can create user list, and you can do some you know access within the application, but how do you prevent people from getting to the application or you if you don’t want them to.

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Ben Rogers: How do you prevent them from copying pasting out of the application, I mean we talked about am ours, if I was leaving the company.

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Ben Rogers: What would prevent me from going in and copy and medical records and put them in a word, document for me to take the my next employer citrix provides all of that we provide.

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Ben Rogers: That overlay of protection that you need for these SAS based web based applications, one of the things I can say about this particular part of this of this.

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Ben Rogers: blog is that man, this is huge for companies that have legacy Apps that they can’t get off of weather is for reporting purposes, like healthcare healthcare has keep.

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Ben Rogers: A medical records around for a minimum of seven years if you’re in pediatrics is to the person’s age 18 to 21.

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Ben Rogers: So some companies can’t just let these legacy applications go away and they still have to be under demand to secure them citrix fits in really good there run that.

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Ben Rogers: application in a citrix environment and secure it was citrix you can make it accountable, you can make it were secured, as far as access level, you can put you can put some security policies over top of it from a copy paste and print.

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Ben Rogers: So end of life people get worried about that, but citrix really does have a solution that will allow you to extend the life of that application with modern day security.

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Andy Whiteside: And then, this section we’re talking here really calls out cities virtual Apps and desktop and 100% true like we can keep running old stuff and we need to.

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Andy Whiteside: keep it alive and have it, for you know reference ability that you couldn’t if it was all SAS but at the same time there’s also some of the other technologies that citrix sets you up for the future, so when the APP goes from.

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Andy Whiteside: x86 to a nerve newer version of x86 or goes full SAS you’ve got a natural transition Okay, how do I get to it now.

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Andy Whiteside: You log into the same place the citrix workspace you log into the same place, you did yesterday it’s just now an icon here versus there and we even named it in such a way, you know which one to go to.

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Exactly.

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Andy Whiteside: A bill chance to chime in on that one a little more or move on.

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Bill Sutton: Now, I think we covered it pretty well on the ul piece yeah I completely agree with what Ben was saying, regarding the presentation of.

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Bill Sutton: These older legacy Apps via citrix securing them that way really does benefit the customer and allows them to provide access in the same way, they do their current Apps to the older Apps yeah.

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Andy Whiteside: So this next section talks about something new we’re in the world of citrix in terms of more and more, making the security conversation.

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Andy Whiteside: And the title of this section is blocking Internet access to vulnerabilities in a way, to say the two products citrix secure private access.

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Andy Whiteside: And citrix secure Internet access, you know I, like many people kind of get confused on all the different new things citrix is doing.

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Andy Whiteside: And you guys help unpack what the what citrix is doing to help with the Protocol flows of applications and the different protocols that go along with those applications.

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Ben Rogers: I can start i’m going to go with secure Internet access right off the BAT because this is a product that I thought was phenomenal when they introduced it citrix one of the problems that I had, where I was at was that.

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Ben Rogers: People would access the Internet, and if you didn’t have any kind of rules that would prevent them and they would go everywhere.

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Ben Rogers: So, in the early days, you would walk down the hall and you’d see people minimizing windows, as you would walk down the hall, you know here comes the it director don’t let him see what we’re in.

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Ben Rogers: When we implemented a secure access model we then were able to go okay here are the areas of the company, you can hear the areas of the Internet, you can go to hear the urban areas of the Internet, you can’t go to we blocked him.

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Ben Rogers: Well, that was very I had a device on site that would do that, and so, for me, with a multi site, I had to get all my sites to.

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Ben Rogers: That single device was secure Internet access does, which is would be perfect in mild scenario.

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Ben Rogers: Is this a cloud service it’s sitting out there, so I don’t have to have a robust when that ties everything back to a single spot that then looking at a single device for these rules.

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Ben Rogers: This is a service, so I can take my individual sites and drive them to this service, and what that would do is give me Internet protection if.

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Ben Rogers: You know let’s just say that a ransomware payload did get on a machine when it was tried to execute it would be blocked.

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Ben Rogers: And so there’s just a lot of power here with you know, this is a next generation firewall that sitting out on the Internet for consumption.

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Ben Rogers: And so it takes away a lot of problems of having a wide area network driving traffic back to a single location.

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Ben Rogers: You now can have multiple locations drive them all to this service, the rules can be across the whole enterprise, so you got one pane of glass to implement all these.

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Ben Rogers: Internet based rules so really good solution and something that I don’t think a lot of people realize that citrix has gotten into we now can provide next generation firewall access and protection and provisioning from this cloud service now.

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Andy Whiteside: So I want to throw one little piece in there and then I wanted to hear bills comments I like this, I like what it does.

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Andy Whiteside: You know what gets me most excited about this will be the silliest trivial thing the fact that the citrix workspace APP is already on my devices and that bit of code is in there and I don’t have to add another agent right.

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Bill Sutton: Exactly so Ben go ahead.

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Andy Whiteside: and have a good.

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Bill Sutton: feel safe and secure Internet access, this is just so that i’m clear, because this is one that i’m not that familiar with, to be honest with you.

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Bill Sutton: This is a this is kind of like the old web it’s beyond it, but it’s kind of like the old web filtering capabilities that we bad.

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Bill Sutton: to your point where you know you can say you can’t access this these specific sites during this time it’s really that’s really what this does, in addition to other things is that right.

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Andy Whiteside: Well it’s i’m in real quick because it bill bill that’s not wrong in terms of ultimately what ends up happening, but the problem with the Web filtering pieces that was on your gateway on the way out, what about when they’re not on your network been good yeah.

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Ben Rogers: yeah I mean you’re exactly right and and do you make a good point that I was making is that you can drive any site to this so man mergers and acquisitions, you know you’ve.

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Ben Rogers: merged with a company, are you taking over company, but they’re not necessarily on your network, but you need to provide Internet access, they want.

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Ben Rogers: This is a way to do that this is basically uncoupling the firewall capability from on Prem and putting them out in a service and being able to drive everybody to that service yeah.

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Bill Sutton: The I mean this is kind of like the branch office capability, without having to do the home run back through headquarters.

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Ben Rogers: And that’s correct.

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Ben Rogers: That is absolutely correct.

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Ben Rogers: What I would love to see now, this is, this is a wish list and i’ve talked to citrix about this is a.

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Ben Rogers: You know, we got this the service man, it would be cool if we could bring that service down to our at scenes and run a little bit on the etc, so you then could make the adc gateway for companies that did have at CS.

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Ben Rogers: it’s been an interesting conversation with some of our engineers, but they go some of these agencies are used.

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Ben Rogers: More than just you know a lot of them are used for inbound traffic not outbound traffic so it’d be a little bit of a shift drive an outbound traffic through the adc but.

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Ben Rogers: i’ve always thought you know why can’t we take a little bit of this code drop it on the adc married to the cloud service but uh.

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Ben Rogers: So it’s a wishlist thing that I presented to them, but that would be really hit man to be able to localize it on an ATC so that you can process it directly from the etc.

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Ben Rogers: and not necessarily have to go to the service, but if you don’t have at CS pointed to the service, the service will do all the protection mechanisms for you and provide you that next gen next generation access that you need.

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Andy Whiteside: I gotta tell you a quick story the part of the summary what been just said, there is most people don’t know this, but the adc the application delivery controller aka Netscape or it’s a router.

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Andy Whiteside: My second time I ever touched the Netscape where we were implementing for a hospital in gastonia North Carolina are doing a PLC for concept.

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Andy Whiteside: And the guy we at citrix at the time I was a consultant for a partner.

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Andy Whiteside: he’s explained it to me to he sees a router and about the time we plug that thing in and turned it on the entire network went down at the hospital.

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Andy Whiteside: i’m like oh my gosh what did we just do, and he said no, no, we didn’t do anything I promise we didn’t do anything turns out an hour later they figured out what their networking guy it done.

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Andy Whiteside: But I thought for a minute there after finding out that the power, the Netscape or is all because of smart software on a on a router really.

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Andy Whiteside: That we’ve taken it down, but that was the moment that it stuck in my head forever that thanks really is a router we just typically use it for other things like inbound application protection stuff.

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Andy Whiteside: hey i’m the citrix technologies and play here, the first one secure Internet access either one of you guys want to help explain to me what citrix secure private access is as it relates compared to the other one we just talked about.

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Bill Sutton: Then you gotta you got knowledge of this one, this one is essentially was designed to be a zero trust network access environment, from what I understand.

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Bill Sutton: And essentially is designed to kind of allow you to replace or or supplement your vpn I think really replace it as a cloud based service but.

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Bill Sutton: That allows a lot of things like browser isolation and and single sign on so forth, but I have not used it myself so i’m not all that familiar with it, to be honest with you.

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Ben Rogers: So we’re this is really coming into play, is for companies that no longer have on Prem applications, I mean we can do on Prem applications, but we have a lot of companies that come to us and go.

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Ben Rogers: we’re born in the Internet, we don’t have any on Prem applications we’ve got all these Internet based SAS based applications, but we need to secure.

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Ben Rogers: We need to put a layer of protection over them that we can’t do native.

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Ben Rogers: And that’s where this comes really into play, what we do is we use workspace and our workspace infrastructure in the background, and we published the SAS based applications for you.

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Ben Rogers: So what that does is that you know Andy you’ve been a big proponent of bring everything in the workspace if it’s not in workspace I shouldn’t be working with it.

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Ben Rogers: Well it’s the same idea don’t change what your users are having to do, let them use the same portal they’ve always used.

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Ben Rogers: And then was secure private access we think and publish the SAS Apps and we can put protection over them, you know copy paste print and all that jazz.

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Ben Rogers: Another component, that this is exactly what you said, we can get into where we can have a direct access into the environment, without it being per se, a vpn we don’t have to.

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Ben Rogers: Open up all of that traffic so where I thought this was pretty neat is let’s say you’ve got a wearable device that needs access to an inbound application.

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Ben Rogers: that’s where something like this would come into play you’ve got something that needs to talk directly to a machine that’s in that data Center we can publish that through this secure private access.

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Andy Whiteside: that’s great as though it helped me a ton.

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Andy Whiteside: And now that you.

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Andy Whiteside: Talk through it, I I do know what that thing is.

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Bill Sutton: The two so absolutely.

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Andy Whiteside: Alright, so the next section here talks about citrix secure access, I was at a 50th birthday party this past weekend and.

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Andy Whiteside: You know, talk to yet another guy that’s involved in it at a financial institution, and they are because of the pandemic they’re all out running vpn and.

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Andy Whiteside: And you know he’s a smart guy they only took like four words out of my mouth before he knew yeah yeah I know it’s not what we should be doing it’s just what we’re doing is how we reacted when the beat when the pandemic hit.

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Andy Whiteside: citrix when they made the acquisition of the Netscape or citrix when they develop the secure and gateway interface chg you know that stayed around forever.

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Andy Whiteside: What was it called before that building remember before cst it was called I infuse.

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Bill Sutton: NP us yeah.

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Andy Whiteside: yeah anyway so citrix knew early on and i’m talking late 90s that remotely access in this stuff without a vpn was where it needed to go simple secure but there’s still tons of companies out there running vpn as a way to access this stuff.

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Andy Whiteside: Then.

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Ben Rogers: The kids are a funny thing to me because a lot of people go Oh well, it’s just giving us access to this, and the question I have is.

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Ben Rogers: Have you done an inventory of your acl is like have you tested your acl Do you know what all your a sales are doing and.

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Ben Rogers: Man unfortunately nine times out of 10 you get people going now we haven’t done it in, so I think vpn has a place.

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Ben Rogers: But I think when you’re managing vpn you’ve got to be on top of that, in my opinion, you got to be inventory and that quarterly if not monthly just to make sure there’s no.

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Ben Rogers: rules in there, that will allow access what this does is takes away all that complexity man you don’t have to worry about your acl you don’t have to worry about a junior.

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Ben Rogers: routing engineer getting in there, doing something and open up something that now has the whole network visible, and so I love this solution because it’s easy and allows me to give direct access to what needs to be access, not to the whole whole network.

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Andy Whiteside: So how about this statement, the only people, the only users, that should be using a vpn or the administrators and they should only use that when they have no other way to get in.

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Ben Rogers: I agree with that, I mean like for me, you can publish your administrative desktops to citrix so I you know.

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Ben Rogers: I don’t think I would give any administrator vpn now I might give them a backdoor in case something with citrix was down but wasted, since the day he can make it pretty robust and almost make it where it won’t go down, so if I was back in Director level CIO level, I might go no vpn.

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Andy Whiteside: You need it.

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Ben Rogers: will deal with it do.

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Andy Whiteside: You have.

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Andy Whiteside: Any comments on the vpn versus secure access over.

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Bill Sutton: yeah I know a number of companies.

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Bill Sutton: moxie friends of mine that have worked and worked with companies that.

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Bill Sutton: That had basically had to go vpn as soon as the pandemic started and they they had problems with with bandwidth and other elements, where they weren’t prepared for vpn and something like this definitely would have helped a lot.

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Andy Whiteside: Well, not only the fact you open up massive security holes it’s just pretty cumbersome for the end users they’ve now got to understand and understand basic technology networking, the better they just logged in and click the icon.

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Exactly yeah.

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Andy Whiteside: Alright next section talks about security workforce centric security access think we talked about this a little bit, but let’s let’s understand what Florida is pointing out here.

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Andy Whiteside: Ben any anything else, we need to expand on this one as it relates to the ball.

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Ben Rogers: Man again to me this is this is outbound firewall and boxes, you see the list here you to amend this casspi piece.

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Ben Rogers: that’s something I would like to talk about because a lot of people, you know really don’t understand you know the cosmic piece that so what makes.

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Ben Rogers: The Internet me is there’s lots of resources out there, what makes it dangerous is there’s lots of resources out there.

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Ben Rogers: But let’s take Facebook, for example, linkedin, for example, linkedin can be a very good thing for employees, there are parts of linkedin that we want our employee base to get to.

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Ben Rogers: But there are other parts of linkedin that we don’t want them to go to you like I wouldn’t want my employees to go looking for jobs, while they’re on my nipple.

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Ben Rogers: This is what this can be does man this catch me allows you to.

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Ben Rogers: grant access to linkedin but only certain portions of linkedin so I could say hey if my it people are looking at it dance education and they want to do some thing with is D squared.

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Ben Rogers: Give them the is C squared information out of linkedin but if they go looking for jobs on ice a square they go to the career section stop them.

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Ben Rogers: So this really is a cool way of granting people access to sites that they need, but limiting the functionality, they could have them.

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Ben Rogers: Facebook was a big thing for me marketers wanted to have access to Facebook everybody marketing more than Facebook and I was like I can’t do that because once I opened up Facebook I opened it up, you know to everything and Facebook.

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Ben Rogers: This would have been a great solution to me because I could have said okay marketing.

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Ben Rogers: team i’m going to give you access to Facebook, but you can only get to these specific sections in Facebook, that is a powerful powerful tool, in my opinion, and I see a lot of companies that will be able to leverage that, for the good of the employee and the good for the business so.

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Andy Whiteside: Then i’d like to start those conversations with making sure I level set with whoever i’m talking to you the difference between the Internet and the World Wide Web applications yeah.

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Ben Rogers: that’s good that’s good at anything by that.

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Andy Whiteside: So I I interviewed a sales guy yesterday and asked him what is the Internet, I ever if you’re listening to this and you’re getting interviewed by me i’m gonna ask you what is the Internet.

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Andy Whiteside: And the Internet right it’s just as public and it’s it’s this public network that’s blended and mess with private networks all over the place, and can get your traffic where it needs to be.

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Andy Whiteside: Back in the outdoor days we used to talk about the World Wide Web and really the World Wide Web is just a bunch of applications that you access through the Internet.

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Andy Whiteside: SAS applications, or just applications was calling applications for this conversation and.

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Andy Whiteside: What this can be type stuff with your Internet access really allows people like Ben and his former role to get smart about what applications he lets them access versus just trying to pin down with sites which networks, it can get to right.

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Andy Whiteside: that’s correct and once you get people thinking Internet as a network and the World Wide Web at www that we still type in sometimes.

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Andy Whiteside: It that’s really what you’re talking about you’re not talking about Internet you talk about the Web now unfortunately marketing and things have got us to where we just think Internet is everything we touch it’s not ours.

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Andy Whiteside: You really can’t have this conversation until you pull those two things apart.

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Ben Rogers: It is funny you’re talking about that in some of your words are reverberating in my head it’s not cloud it’s clouds.

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Andy Whiteside: clouds or Apps as a service infrastructure as a service platform as a service, I mean it’s just you gotta Be careful i’m.

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Andy Whiteside: Actually, talking to one of your sea level people later today Ben and he and I have a conversation i’m not sure he knows the difference between what i’m talking about what he’s talking about.

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Andy Whiteside: he’s talking to the marketing speak I pulling down a level and then we’re going to talk again just said, make sure you understand what concerns or but it’s just normal the whole world like is it is it a cola know to coke oh no it’s not a cola no it’s okay.

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Ben Rogers: The last speaks with this, and I would say man that’s really killer is the real time reporting.

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Ben Rogers: Man, you have something weird come up and go in this reporting engine it’ll it’ll help you drive out or you know.

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Ben Rogers: I was one time researching something for CSA in during my research, I found.

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Ben Rogers: Something that was quite interesting to the company and we didn’t realize that we had created that rule to do what it was doing.

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Ben Rogers: And as soon as we got in and started drilling into some reports we realized that.

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Ben Rogers: Oh, we created this it’s for specific purpose, but a lot of people are using it, they shouldn’t be so we had to click we have you know.

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Ben Rogers: clip some of the access back, but I would have never found that unless I was doing a report against something and said.

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Ben Rogers: This thing has a very robust reporting engine you’ll be able to tell what your users are doing what sites are being access, how long they’re being access just a litany of things that administrator CEO CFO is want to know about what’s going on on their internet service.

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Andy Whiteside: been it’s smart enough to tell you, when things anomaly start to happen if people start going places they hadn’t been going to can least log that and maybe even alert you wanna.

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Ben Rogers: yeah I think it can do some alerting I think it’s limited but the biggest thing is being able to clip and report on it and and being able to respond if you need.

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Bill Sutton: it’s just like what today what’s the most value one of one of those valuable commodities, we have in this data and the ability to get that data out of there.

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Bill Sutton: And we’ve got customers, now that are running older versions of.

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Bill Sutton: citrix like we talked about earlier.

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Bill Sutton: And you know, in one case the customer has like 130 Apps that are published and we’re like well how many of these are actually used by users, well, I think it’s 1010 well which 10 well I think it’s these eight and maybe this one, and maybe this one.

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Bill Sutton: They don’t have the data to support it, so the ability to have that data somewhere, whether it’s the cloud or whether it’s on Prem, but in this case being to get it get it through the cloud.

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Bill Sutton: just get being able to get the data and analyze it for that sole purpose that single purpose of what Apps are being used is huge and then you take it to the next level.

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Bill Sutton: Like you were talking about ban the ability to see in real time what users are doing.

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Bill Sutton: what’s what’s the load on the network who’s accessing what from where and so forth, all that data is valuable very valuable to the business to be able to monitor and and report on what’s happening in their organizations.

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Andy Whiteside: So this next section is a secure your access secure private access, I think we kind of got ahead of ourselves when we talked about the other section, but.

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Andy Whiteside: let’s just succinctly Ben if you don’t mind just restate what secure private access is and hitting these bullets that are here that are particular to point out.

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Ben Rogers: Well, I mean we’ve kind of you know, talking about secure private access being able to way to protect your Internet your SAS based applications.

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Ben Rogers: may not want to open up the door here for a minute ad and talk about byd because it’s interesting when you’re working with customers are.

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Ben Rogers: Some customers still think that they need to own the endpoint device and with chip shortages, these days, I mean a lot of them are stressing on trying to get chromebooks laptops.

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Ben Rogers: And I look at them, sometimes and go, why are you putting that stress on yourself why don’t you let the users use their own devices and come into citrix not worry about that get that off your plate.

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Ben Rogers: And so that’s one of the things the third point is, you know implement a byob program, I would like to see administrators stop thinking about they’ve got to provide their users their equipment.

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Ben Rogers: Give them the ability to work everybody has their own equipment, these days, if you don’t there’s ways to get it talk to Andy he’s got a he’s got a.

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Ben Rogers: startup company that’s helping kids and underprivileged areas get laptops and they continue, you know at home education.

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Ben Rogers: there’s ways to get equipment, it just pains me when I see administrator stressing over this where i’m like you’ve got the.

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Ben Rogers: structure where you don’t have to do that, you don’t have to provide.

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Ben Rogers: Yesterday, when I was talking to HR having my exit interview, they were like well what equipment, do you have from us, and I was like I don’t have anything of yours and you’re like What do you mean I was like.

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Ben Rogers: I work for citrix I can do everything on my own devices, you could couldn’t be in an area that makes it safe you didn’t have to provide me anything and that’s the way more companies should start thinking about it.

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Andy Whiteside: But then I love doing these podcasts because I get challenged myself once I was INTEGRA had a byob policy.

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Andy Whiteside: And then we started buying Microsoft surfaces and logos so that we can then own the device and give them to people, we as a company never explored using this their challenges we had with Bo byob were twofold.

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Andy Whiteside: One having some control over the device without ownership of this solves that why we didn’t use it ourselves, I don’t know and then the other was when you came into as INTEGRA office.

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Andy Whiteside: We need you to be able to dock your laptop and work from one of our spots are hoteling spots and US BC and these docking stations are going to solve that.

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Andy Whiteside: So i’m back to thinking we go back to byob and just include some type of secure private access citrix is to to allow people to be use their device but us kind of guard them against what they don’t know they don’t know.

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Ben Rogers: I like I like i’d look at administrators and go protect what you have to protect and that’s the data Center the data and insight application and if your SAS.

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Ben Rogers: Preventing SAS data from linking over into something where you don’t want get out of the end user end user name man with today’s technology, you can stop worrying about that.

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Ben Rogers: And if you have you know, this is not part of secure private access, but if you have in some kind of in factor or.

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Ben Rogers: ABC as a service or something like that sitting in front of this, you can scan their device and go hey you got to be at certain software threshold levels to allow access so, then you do put some of the onus back on the user to go.

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Ben Rogers: If you want to access our environment you’ve got to keep your devices up to this level so again I just look at this whole section here wonderful how we do this, but the biggest thing to me is you get away from owning those endpoint devices which should say companies a lot of money.

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Andy Whiteside: yeah and they don’t have to manage the things I know you’re you take a self we already talked about here with.

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Andy Whiteside: secure access where we’re going to challenge that you have certain things, and then, at the same time you.

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Andy Whiteside: will use titanium is integrity potassium agent on there you check the devices to make sure they have things are supposed to have and you push.

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Andy Whiteside: patches out for the operating system and important applications and then, at the same time, you have a what i’ll call a century, like a person Gordon their machine all the time and help prevent them from going places that might harm them that’s great.

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Andy Whiteside: Do you want to comment on that after you heard all that back and forth and you’re on our manager calls you hear my my struggles there.

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Bill Sutton: yeah I mean you know, while while we’ve been talking i’ve also been kind of looking through some of this private access stuff and.

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Bill Sutton: it’s really amazing what citrix has done here I wasn’t really aware of how much had been.

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Bill Sutton: developed in this arena, but you know, the ability to use multiple identity providers to get into secure private access and then access SAS Apps as well as on Prem Apps.

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Bill Sutton: Through a gateway because that was my challenge band was having SIS enable access to the on Prem Apps and it does through a through a connector just like we do with.

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Bill Sutton: Virtual Apps and desktops and other other components, so if this is a you know and it leverages browser isolation and the ability to spin up a you know Andy the remote browser.

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Bill Sutton: Service so there’s lots of security benefits and ease of use benefits here that I wasn’t really even aware of until now.

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Andy Whiteside: here’s The funny thing right we do this stuff all day there’s pieces like this that we don’t think about citrix and we should have been.

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Andy Whiteside: So why should we be surprised that.

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Andy Whiteside: The the 10s of thousands of citrus customers out there don’t know all this either, well, we should maybe that’s why we do the podcast I listened to the the citrix podcasts I click down on my flight up to Boston this morning and.

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Andy Whiteside: You know they talked about great stuff like this, but they talked about it through their eyes, where they already know what this stuff does.

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Andy Whiteside: I think our podcast we’re doing here we’ve got been helping us out and and bill, and I, you know getting educated, at the same time.

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Andy Whiteside: You know that gives us a chance to see other people see our eyes open and what we didn’t know we didn’t know there’s a ton of stuff going on in the citrix where a lot of it is security related.

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Ben Rogers: Yes, Danny i’m going to say something to you that pains my heart.

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Ben Rogers: We ought to be in there, educating you on this, we ought to have more partner engagement and ought to be meeting with you on a regular basis, so that you do understand this for you to tell me that.

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Ben Rogers: You don’t you don’t know that these things are out there man that really hurts me because that’s what my job is to make sure that my partner’s know in train and and semana I mean I take that to heart, you don’t want to want to mark that in my pocket, and I will not let that happen again.

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Andy Whiteside: Oh, been told me after this and i’ll tell you where that that falls apart in your world.

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Andy Whiteside: Not you not you personally, but institute’s world.

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Andy Whiteside: secure the last section here was something that when I was in that hospital in guest on here, this is what we were doing, and that is providing.

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Andy Whiteside: secure access to Apps and api’s that are internal that firewall protection that citrix has done for a long time fact that’s part of what the Netscape or did before citrix bought it then you want to try to explain how citrix does this for some of the largest companies in the world.

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Ben Rogers: might be a little beyond my my htc knowledge is enough to be dangerous what this is really looking at is you know.

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Ben Rogers: Application application communication man you, you have a lot of web Apps these days that depend on other web Apps and they’re making those communications through ap eyes and a lot of times are having to do that across a public network.

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Ben Rogers: So we’ve kind of put this out there to be able to kind of have a bridge for that let’s send that.

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Ben Rogers: Traffic to a service, where we can scrub that before it comes down into the data Center and again it’s making it as a service, so you don’t have to have.

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Ben Rogers: A single point of entry, you can have this out there and drive all the traffic to it and have it come back down to multiple data centers again, you know rules routing all that jazz.

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Ben Rogers: that’s the big thing i’ve seen here with you know web development and web application rollout is the ability to protect those API.

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Ben Rogers: And the ability to bring it to a single kind of traffic cop, to be able to do that marrying for you, and then, of course, man is hitting all the.

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Ben Rogers: Though to be a SP SP rules as far as you know, man sql injections it’s looking for that button that’s all those sorts of things.

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Ben Rogers: Really cool service man takes a lot off the endpoint you know you don’t have to have these things outside anymore they’re now delivered as a service.

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Ben Rogers: And this last piece de dos if you’re getting beat dos attack it bunch be rather to D DAS a service that’s not connected to you.

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Ben Rogers: Instead of it coming to your own pipe and that was important for me and healthcare man, I could not have my.

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Ben Rogers: Internet connection being flooded with de dos attacks so again in this gives you an extra layer of protection of sin that attack somewhere else you know they think they’re attacking you but they’re.

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Ben Rogers: Really attacking the service this man by you know hundreds of people looking at it and you keep your Internet pipe clean and all those others vulnerabilities off.

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Andy Whiteside: And the main thing here is you’re doing this at the smarter layers of the osi model, a lot of layer four through seven.

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Andy Whiteside: you’re doing load balancing and things you have to do anyway let’s go and take a look at that traffic and see what’s appropriate coming at us at layer four through seven so that the layer eight human layer that have to worry about is taken care of yeah exactly.

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Bill Sutton: yeah I implemented this for a couple of customers back in the day, and this is a this has really.

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Bill Sutton: been summed it up pretty well and particularly around D DAS, but things like you’ve probably heard of these things like.

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Bill Sutton: Cross site scripting and sql injection attacks, where they you know there’s a foreign field in a form on the web, where.

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Bill Sutton: Somebody that’s that no sql can actually insert the sql command and if it’s not set up right, it will execute that command and that’s how databases get exposed.

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Bill Sutton: And laugh putting in between the external access and that database can look at that traffic and say hey this is this looks like a known exploit or this is out of the ordinary for access to this and dump it off somewhere else or deny it, or or make a.

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Bill Sutton: initiate a response that essentially says error or something along those lines, I mean this is a, this is a big deal when it comes to companies that have lots of web properties and lots of access to data through the Internet.

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Bill Sutton: We have a lot of customers that do this to protect a lot of their their load balance resources on the back end so.

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Andy Whiteside: bill that’s two things what you just said.

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Andy Whiteside: You said web Apps and that’s true these days that’s it’s very, very eXtensible and bigger than people think, because of all the api’s that you might be open it’s not a website, or you got a website, a great.

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Andy Whiteside: Somebody can browse that web browser it’s all the api’s it almost every company that has to talk to other companies is opening up it’s a lot bigger than just those web properties and not say you’re wrong just adding that API story to what you just said yeah.

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Andy Whiteside: So question for both you how is it possible that these back end systems have these vulnerabilities that.

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Andy Whiteside: Nobody thought about when it was being developed, and the answer is simple, it was written by a human being, that we can use technologies and services and artificial intelligence to look for things and find things that human being didn’t know they were even supposed to look out for.

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Bill Sutton: yeah and also they don’t a lot of lot of times those critical applications and resources on the backend aren’t patched regularly.

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Bill Sutton: And then vulnerabilities discovered and they’re concerned about patching it because it’s going to break it and you know a lot of times that ways into it and mix it insecure and the need for these types of things, help mitigate that someone.

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Ben Rogers: And I would also add that you know developers their developers they’re not security people so like bill was mentioning you know you’ve got a form field and a hacker comes in, and they know how to do a sequel statement that breaks that form field and gets.

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Ben Rogers: Access to a database, you know I don’t think the developers are thinking that way they’re thinking about you know the software needs to do this input a data output, a data.

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Ben Rogers: I don’t know if they’re really thinking about security that’s what the security guys are for but that’s what these that’s what the services are geared towards to.

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Ben Rogers: Protect things like that you know the developer what thinking about across script.

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Ben Rogers: Air and one of his web forms and you get somebody like bill on there, and he goes well, let me just I you know get blah blah blah and all sudden he’s at the command prompt and.

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Ben Rogers: You know developers are meant to develop and work with data and make day to do things that are for the good of the company, security or security, people are the ones that need to protect that and so.

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Ben Rogers: I don’t blame developers, for having bugs or things like that in their application, what I do blame is for people not having security professionals on board that can help with these sorts of things and that’s what the service is kind of geared to do.

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Andy Whiteside: Then you just said, some i’ll say this politely you just said something doesn’t quite make sense, but you said it right.

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Andy Whiteside: Security professionals, but they can leverage technology is way beyond what they’re capable of doing themselves based on time and commitments and resources.

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Andy Whiteside: yeah you put the technology in the hands of those security people to front end those developers developers are there to enable stuff to happen, they don’t necessarily think about what could happen if it’s taken us the wrong way.

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Ben Rogers: yeah like let’s say you work for a company, and you have a breach and it came from us across script in a web form, I don’t know if I would feel good about.

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Ben Rogers: attacking a database me a software programmer for that now, if it was a software programmer that was.

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Ben Rogers: killed and security, then yeah that might be a different conversation but i’m not sure that.

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Ben Rogers: An application developer might understand that vulnerability and that might not be something they’re thinking about where a cyber security person that’s going to be at the top of his list so it’s just I don’t know.

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Ben Rogers: it’s it’s interesting to see where the responsibilities lie and who could have responsibility if something was to get you know breached.

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Andy Whiteside: It trust trust the developer sorta I didn’t trust the security guy but then using technology to verify you done that she came.

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Ben Rogers: And these are all things andy’s you mentioned that I don’t think a lot of customers realize citrix is involved in now they keep when I talked to customers they go.

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Ben Rogers: yeah you’re that virtualization company allows us to get the APP for remotely and you’re like man, I mean that is a strong part of what we do, but there are other things in our portfolio, now that does make a supply playing the security realm, in my opinion.

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Andy Whiteside: Alright, so let’s do this we’re out of time and ready to go.

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Andy Whiteside: bill, if I were to say the number one reason why customers don’t understand all the other thing citrix does is because of all the good it’s done with the virtual APP and desktop being such an overwhelming success any truth to that.

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Bill Sutton: I think there’s a lot of truth to that, I think, also it’s it’s the kind of.

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Bill Sutton: Go I go back a number of years, and you probably remember this, where they’ll.

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Bill Sutton: The old concept of the one trick pony I think that as much as we’ve tried to get away from the one trick pony it’s still.

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Bill Sutton: That it’s still the albatross it’s a good albatross because it’s a solid product that that’s that addresses a lot of needs, but.

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Bill Sutton: I think a lot of folks still to ben’s point view us at the view citrix as the company that is.

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Bill Sutton: delivers virtual desktops and virtual Apps but there’s so so much more Beyond that, I mean that that had that has some inherent security benefits as we’ve discussed but.

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Bill Sutton: citrix has come a long way and some of these other areas and i’ll be honest i’ve learned today some new stuff that that has intrigued me enough to go start searching and learning more about this, particularly the secure private access.

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Andy Whiteside: victim of their own success.

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Correct.

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Andy Whiteside: appreciate you being part of this so we’ll catch you on the other side when you land where you land and give you a loop back in but it’s been great having you on.

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Bill Sutton: yeah great.

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Ben Rogers: yeah I appreciate it end bill, I will tell you I mean i’ve learned a lot being part of this podcast and man, I think you and I, I hope, there’s a place for me and another one in the near future.

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Andy Whiteside: Alright, so bill, thank you for your time, as always, and gentlemen enjoy the rest your day.

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Bill Sutton: Thanks man.